CA WORLD SERVICE BOARD OF TRUSTEES RECORD OF ONLINE BUSINESS BETWEEN QUARTERLY MEETINGS
March 2011 – May 2011
FINAL
Since this report is a confidential C A document, for members only, it may contain communication within the fellowship was approved by the 1990 WS Conference. Such confidential use does not, of course, violate in any way out Tradition on anonymity in public communications media (press, radio, TV, etc).
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Monday, March 21, 2011
Terry: Motion to accept Draft 2 of 1st quarter.
Kim: thank you Terry, is there a second?
Russell: I second the motion by Terry to approve draft 2 of the Newsgram.
Kim: thank you Russ ell… There is a motion to approve the sec ond draft of th e 1st Quarter Newgram, second by Russell. Discussion will remain open for 48 hours, with voting taking place on Wednesday @11am CST .
Thursday, March 24, 2011
Kim: thanks everyone… Motion passes, Terry, please let Cynthia know.
Thursday, April 28, 2011
Randy: Motion to approve the response to LCF regarding the Principle Pamphlet failing Point 7.
Richard S.: Second.
The WSBT acknowledges and appreciates the hard work put towards the pamphlet. We recognize, respect and support the group conscience of the Conference for the concept of a “principles” pamphlet.
It is our role in point 7 of the process to “review… to insure there are no Traditions violation or other concerns that might affect Cocaine Anonymous as a whole… If the WSBT finds problems with the draft, it will proved a list of specific recommendations and the pamphlet returns to point t.”
The WSBT did not pass the piece through point 7 and the following would be the specific recommendations for the LCF committee.
Concerns were presented that attaching a specific principle to a specific step would not be in the best interest of Cocaine Anonymous as a whole. Views were presented that highlighted the potential controversy and dis-unifying debate regarding CA taking a position with this subject. It was recognized that the application of any principle is a personal one in relationship to their experience with any individual step and therefore no right or wrong application.
The various differing opinions of nearly each individual member of the WSBT on this issue actually highlighted the importance of, and ultimately supported, our decision to make these recommendations.
The WSBT recognized that the committee went to great effort in the pamphlet to mention that the principles represented on our principles chip are a just few of many and encouraged the fellowship to explore the personal experience of others not listed. We support that opinion and recommend keeping verbiage that supports that in the revision.
The WSBT supports the principles chip of CA in its un-numbered state as C.A.’s recognition of their importance. The WSBT would recommend that LCF draft a pamphlet that focuses on the values of the principles themselves and refrain from attaching them to steps.
Kim: There is a motion by Randy to approve the response to LCF regarding the “Principle Pamphlet” failing Point 7, second by Richard S. If no one objects, the floor will be open for discussion until Friday, April 29th @12n CST. Voting to follow.
Saturday, April 30, 2011
Kim: It’s time…Please cast your votes…thanks~
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Sunday, May 01, 2011
Kim: I am aware of a piece of business that is waiting to come to the ‘floor ” , therefore with eight of the nine allowed votes casted, I will call the vote. The motion passes. Richard L ., and Joy, please see that L C F receives the info regarding Point 7. Thank you everyone~and good night!
Monday, May 02, 2011
Russell: Motion: CAWSO to cease printing, selling and distribution of all French language pamphlets and books (HFC & HFC2) until the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions are corrected to mirror the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions of Cocaine Anonymous as set down in our bylaws. Terry: Second
Kim: There is a motion to have C A WSO cease printing, selling and distributing of all
French language pamphlets and books (H F C & H F C2) until the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions are corrected to mirror the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions of Cocaine Anonymous as set down in our bylaws. Second by Terry. Discussion will be open for four (4) days, with voting taking place on Friday, May 6th. I now yield the floor to the maker of the motion, Russell.
Discussion>
>Russell:
Dear all:
I speak in favor of this motion as I believe it is truly for the future safety, benefit and health of our fellowships primary purpose our identity and our integrity. I also believe the motion and its intent to be within the spirit of our traditions.
The 12 Steps and 12 Traditions currently being used in the name of CA in French language literature and on websites are not the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions of Cocaine Anonymous.
The 12 Steps and 12 Traditions of Cocaine Anonymous are listed in our Bylaws and within those bylaws, below the listed steps and traditions; there is clear direction as to our roles with maintaining the integrity of the steps/traditions.
WSM 2011 Edition, page 61 thru 64;
BYLAWS OF COCAINE ANONYMOUS WORLD SERVICES, INC.
The Board of Directors of Cocaine Anonymous World Services, Inc. (hereinafter referred to as the ³:RUOG6HUYLFH%RDUG´or ³W.S.B´) has but one purpose ² that of serving the Fellowship of Cocaine Anonymous. It is in effect an agency created and designated by the World Service Conference of Cocaine Anonymous to maintain services for those who seek, through Cocaine Anonymous, the means for arresting the disease of addiction through the application to their own lives, in whole or in part, of the Twelve Steps which constitute the recovery program upon which
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the Fellowship of Cocaine Anonymous is founded. These Twelve Steps are as follows:
- We admitted we were powerless over cocaine and all other mind-altering substances ² that our lives had become unmanageable.
- Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
- Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God, as we understood Him.
- Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
- Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
- Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
- Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
- Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
- Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
- Continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
- Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
- Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to addicts, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
The World Service Board claims no proprietary right in the recovery program, for these Twelve Steps, as all spiritual truths, may now be regarded as available to all mankind. However, because these Twelve Steps have proven to constitute an effective spiritual basis for life which, if followed, arrests the disease of addiction, the World Service Board asserts the negative right of preventing, so far as it may be within its power so to do, any modification, alteration or extension of these Twelve Steps, except at the instance of the F ellowship of Cocaine Anonymous in keeping with the Charter of the World Service Conference of Cocaine Anonymous as the same may from time to time be amended (hereinafter referred to as the–Charter).
The World Service Board in its deliberations and decisions shall be guided by the Twelve Traditions of Cocaine Anonymous, hereinafter referred to as the Traditions which are as follows:
- Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon C.A. unity.
- For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority ² a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.
- The only requirement for C.A. membership is a desire to stop using cocaine and all other mind-altering substances.
- Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or C.A. as a whole.
- Each group has but one primary purpose ² to carry its message to the addict who still suffers.
- A C.A. group ought never endorse, finance or lend the C.A. name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property or prestige divert us from our primary purpose.
- Every C.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.
- Cocaine Anonymous should remain forever non-professional, but our service centers may
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employ special workers.
- A., as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve.
- Cocaine Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the C.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.
- Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, television and films.
- Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.
The World Service Board shall use its best efforts to insure that these Twelve Traditions are maintained, for it is regarded by the Fellowship of Cocaine Anonymous as the custodian of these Traditions and, accordingly, it shall not itself nor, so far as it is within its power so to do, permit others to modify, alter, or amplify these Traditions, except in keeping with the provisions of the Charter.
Within our Conference Charter (WSM 2011 page 58) it states;
But no change in Article 10 of the Charter or in the Twelve Traditions of C.A., or in the Twelve Steps of C.A. may be made with less than the written consent of three-quarters of the C.A. Groups.
The above clearly shows us that we must, however difficult this may prove, maintain the identity and integrity of Cocaine Anonymous by protecting our Steps and Traditions. The French language steps/traditions are substance specific and do not align with the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions of Cocaine Anonymous, our principle spiritual aim is therefore being compromised and misrepresented in the French version, albeit unintentionally.
We have, as a fellowship, taken prudent action in setting down our 12 Steps and 12 Traditions within our Bylaws. Our job as WSBT is to respect and act accordingly to the direction set out in the above information. The issue may be best dealt with by the fellowship at conference but I see no option but to take immediate action to stop further publications being printed and distributed with non CA Steps and Traditions listed until this issue is rectified and/or the fellowship can respond at conference.
I believe that the Steps and Traditions currently being used in French literature may restrict those to whom our solution is offered, and as such may deny addicts in need the opportunity to recover.
The 12 Step currently being used in our French literature states;
Step 12
Ayant connu un réveil spirituel comme résultat de ces É tapes, nous avons alors essayé de transmettre ce mesage à d’aut res cocaïnomanes et de mettre en pratique ces principes dans tous les domaines de notre vie.
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translates as…
Having known a awakening as result of the se Ste ps, we then tried to transmit t his message to other cocaine addicts and to put in practice these principles in all the domains of our life.
The 5th Tradition currently being used in our French literature states; trad 5 Chaque groupe n’a qu’un objectif primordial – transmettre son message au cocaïnomane qui souffre encore.
translates as…
Every group has only an essential objective – to transmit his message to the cocaine addict that suffers
(***PLEASE BE AWARE I HAVE USED SEVERAL ONLINE TRANSLATION SERVICES AND SOME WORDING MY DIFFER, THE WORDING “COCAINE ADDICT” HOWEVER REMAINS CONSTANT IN ALL RESULTS)
I believe this issue to be of major importance and feel obliged to act accordingly. I see no option but to stop the sales/distribution/printing of all current French literature stocks from CAWSO until this is resolved.
>Joy: Thank you so much for brining this to our attention. I agree with you 100%. I am in favor of this motion.
>Peter: Great job Russell. I agree with you. And speak in favor of the motion.
>Randy: I speak against the motion as an on-line piece of business.
I agree with Russell as to the importance of the translation issue. I agree that it most definitely affects CA as a whole. I agree that it needs to be addressed quickly. But –
The number of questions I have regarding the process of “translated” conference approved literature cannot be addressed on line adequately or in a time frame for me to feel “educated”. Is translated literature considered conference approved?
Is translated literature put in front of the conference for formal approval?
What is the process for that approval? Conference, WSO, or just committee?
Any actions by the trustees to stop the distribution of conference approved literature (if in fact, it was conference approved) should be taken cautiously and deliberately. It is not a legal matter (like HIW) of copyrights – it is a translation matter. And though I agree with the importance of the obvious tradition issues and our interpretation of the translation and its improper representation of our fellowship – I just believe that we should take this into our quarterly. We are meeting face to face in less than a month. I would like to be educated as to the process that exists, or doesn’t, as to translated literature. Answers to questions usually spur more questions and a week on line leaves very little actual dialogue.
I would favor a motion to table until the quarterly, but have to speak against the motion as presented currently, because I just don’t believe I’m educated to vote on it and it should be handled face to face.
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>Terry: Thanks Randy I agree with you. I was trying to get at the same concerns. My lack of communication lies between my head and typing. >Richard S.: I speak in favor of the motion:
“To have CAWSO cease printing, selling and distributing of all French language pamphlets and books (HFC & HFC2) until the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions are corrected to mirror the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions of Cocaine Anonymous as set down in our bylaws.”
We have been informed that we are distributing books and pamphlets from our office representing CA that is not following our by-laws nor conference charter and a potential legal matter by modifying a part of the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions that we do not have permission to modify nor distribute modified.
We not only have A responsibility but THE responsibility to act on behalf of our conference during the year with issues that affect CA as a whole, having knowledge of the manufacturing and distribution of improper (not our conference approved) 12 Steps and 12 Traditions should be acted upon once discovered.
The maker of the motion stated clearly that this is not an ‘interpretation’ nor a simple ‘translation’ misinterpretation but an error, having been made aware of it we can and should be discussing it now. If we find out more information 3 weeks from now at our quarterly we can always bring a new motion but I believe this should be addressed when and as presented. >Terry: Motion to Table
>Joy: Second.
>Richard S.: Point of Order
The motion to table is out of order.
We have no business that needs to be attended to immediately nor urgently, nor any business waiting while this matter is on the floor. We are not missing any WSBT member (none is known to be offline or on travel) There being no reason to table but a consideration to delay is out of order.
>Kim S.: There is a motion to lay on the table: motion to hav e CAWSO cease print ing, selling and distributing o f all French language pamphlets and boo ks (H F C & H F C2) until the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions are corrected to mirror the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions of Cocaine Anonymous as set down in our bylaws, by Terry, seconded by Joy.
At this time I will N O T consider the motion to table, and will call it out of order. I will consider a motion to postpone until a certain time the consideration of the main motion. The motion to postpone to a certain time should be specific to date, and or meeting; as an item of old business (At my discretion, I will only consider this motion if it includes being addressed at our next assembly; the Quarterly May meeting). It does require a second, and is debatable, and requires a majority to pass.
>Terry: Motion to postpone consideration of the main motion until May 2011 quarterly in Phoenix Arizona.
>Randy: Not being a Robert’s Rules junkie by any stretch of my imagination and for my future reference, where did you find what defines a motion to table as potentially being out of order? Member(s) of the board may or may not agree with Richard S’s opinion that the motion had “no reason to table but a ´consideration to delay” as the only reason for the motion to table. I
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spoke directly to a series of questions regarding the process of translated literature becoming conference approved (or not) that is important to me in this decision and not yet answered. Quite frankly, I’m not aware of a motion to table requiring a reason (maybe it does) – isn’t that why we vote on it – to discount any frivolous motions to table from being enacted. Learning on the fly here –
>Kim: Is this a point of information?
>Kim:: If you’re posting is indeed a point of information…
Robert’s Rules: The motion to table is, properly, used only when it is necessary to suspend consideration of a main motion in order to deal with another matter that has come up unexpectedly and which must be dealt with before the pending motion can be properly addressed. It has, however, become common to misuse the motion to end consideration of the pending main motion without debate, or to mistakenly assume that its adoption prevents further consideration of the main motion at all, or until a specified time.
>Richard S.: Randy, in response:
Roberts Rules, any publication will provide you the details and parameters for a ‘motion to lay on the table’ and as our Vice Chair please do familiarize yourself as I am happy to provide the information now and at anytime but the questioning directed at me in your response without your own research seemed a bit discounting towards me as it was not my opinion but a Point of Order based on the parliamentary procedure we follow.
A motion to table does require a reason, like discussion of a motion is taking up too much time and we need to move on to other business or there is a pressing matter of business that is waiting or has come up that the body needs to address.
A chair can strike a frivolous motion (or call it out of order) rather than waste time voting on it, but then again, what I find deep and meaningful you could find frivolous, that’s why we have our structure and follow Roberts Rules of Order.
> Richard L.: Thank you Randy…….
I also speak against the Motion. We have a translation committee that the WSOB uses and pays for. Its professional translation and editing services; to handle these matters. I think it would be wrong for us to rush to hast without any of us board members fluently speaking this language (And by the way… are we talking French-Canadian or European-French). Certain words get lost in translations and this should be a referral to the translation committee. Just as all the pamphlets (and literature) coming from Iran, Sweden, Denmark, Poland, Russia, Spanish. Should we seize all foreign literature and stop carrying the message. Should we punish those that have don’t have updated material. What about all the pamphlets sitting in the warehouse at the WSO, or on the tables of a CA meeting, or the old chips. The answer is in a solution, but not making an area come to a halt. Don’t punish the fellowship or an area or a region for using old material.
PS. A motion to table can be made at any time! (I’ve been reading Robert’s Rules of Order – obi wan kenobi !!!) Especially if board members want more time to be informed on the motion.
Thank you
>Kim: Let’s please move on… is there a second to Terry’s motion to postpone consideration of the main motion until May 2011 Quarterly in Phoenix, Arizona.
>Richard S.: Richard L., to reference your email, any motion can be made at anytime, and, be called out of order. As far as your statement for a Motion to table, you are mistaken; Roberts Rules 10Th Edition pg 61 – 63. There must be a reason to lay a motion on the table (the reasons for this have been provided in my prior emails exactly as stated in Roberts Rules)
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What you reference regarding the desire of more time is what the chair offered to the maker of the prior motion (Terry) which is a “motion to postpone” that is what is used for consideration of a timeframe not a motion to table.
>Russell: Point of information.
Richard L, can you confirm that the French HFC2 has been through the process outlined in the WSOB internal translation document.
Can you confirm that the French steps and traditions have been reviewed by a translator who is neutral and versed in our fellowships purpose?
>Richard L . : things you’ll need:
Robert’s Rules of Order
- How to Table a Motion Using Robert’s Rules of Order
- 1 Obtain the floor. Before you may make the motion to table the pending question, you must obtain the floor—that is, gain the right to speak—by being recognized by the presiding officer of the assembly. You may not obtain the floor until it has been yielded by the member who currently holds it. It is important that the floor has, in fact, been yielded because if you rise prematurely or are standing at the time the floor is yielded, the chair may find you to be out of order and recognize another member who follows the proper form. If you are entitled to the floor, the presiding officer, or “chair,” will formally recognize you using the phrase “the chair recognizes” and announcing your name, or by simply announcing your name.
- 2 Make the motion to table the pending question before the assembly. Use any of the following forms to make the motion: “I move to lay the question on the table,” “I move that the question be laid on the table,” or “I move that the question lie on the table.” You may not qualify the motion in any way. For example, it is out of order to state “I move that the question be laid on the table until 3 p.m.” Qualifying the motion in this manner is, in effect, an attempt to change it to a motion to Postpone to a Certain Time which is subject to a different set of parliamentary procedures. (Refer to the Warning section for more information.)
- 3 Wait for your motion to be seconded. The motion to Lay on the Table must be seconded by another member of the assembly in the form of “I second the motion,” or simply, “I second it.” The member who seconds the motion need not be recognized by the chair to do so. The motion may not be amended or debated by yourself, by the member who seconds it, or by any other member of the assembly. If your motion is not seconded, it dies on the floor.
- 4 Wait for the chair to state your motion and put it to the assembly for a vote. After your motion has been made and seconded, the chair states “It is moved and seconded that the question before the assembly be laid on the table,” or some
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other form to that effect. Because the motion to Lay on the Table may not be debated nor amended, the chair will immediately call for a vote on your motion.
- 5 Vote on your motion. You and the other members of the assembly will then vote on your motion. The motion to Lay on the Table is carried by a simply majority. If your motion carries, the pending question and everything adhering to it—amendments, resolutions to refer it to committee, etc.—are tabled and placed in the charge of the secretary of the assembly. The assembly may now consider the urgent matter that prompted your motion to table the question. While the question is on the table, any motion or action on the same subject that would in any way affect the tabled question is out of order. The assembly may only consider the question again after an in-order motion to Take from the Table is moved, seconded, and carried
>Kim: Very good…
We all know how to make a motion…. to table, or otherwise…
This is about parliamentary procedure…
As to keep the business at hand…please…
I have ruled the motion to table out of order, I have entertained a motion to postpone until a certain time the consideration of the main motion, which Terry has made…I am waiting for a second.
>Randy: Second
>Richard L.: PO I: To Answer your question honestly, I don’t know, but I will find out. This was been done before I was on the WSO board and before you were around. We will have to find out. But, like I said, this should be a referral to the translations committee for updating, but I’m against halting any Area using current WSC approved material without going to the WS Conference first. We should also be talking to the Area so they may have fair representation, input and/ or a voice as stated in the translation guidelines, as you should know being part of that committee
- Kim: There is a motion by Terry: to postpone consideration of the main motion until May 2011, Quarterly meeting, in Phoenix, Arizona. Second by Randy. The floor is open for Please keep the debate to the motion to “postpone”.
>Russell: Point of Information:
Can a main motion be withdrawn whilst a secondary motion (motion to postpone) is on the floor?
>Kim: No, I will not allow, out of order.
>Richard L.: POSTPONE
>Kim: I just wanted to provide some information that I sought out today, and what I was able to find out regarding the subject matter being discussed on-line.
With the best interest of CA in mind, and with the desire to provide information in cooperation with the WSO, I called the office and spoke with Linda and John regarding the status of the publication of the 300 HFC II books in French.
I did so as to gather and provide information only, and not to act on behalf of any “supposed” action that this Board might or will take, or with any authority pertaining to future action.
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I was advised that CA has registered for a copyright number from the Canadian “people” to move forward with the publications.
CA had been given a first round “ok”, but needs to provide additional information to complete the process. I did advise Linda and John that they if they were to proceed, to do so with caution and concern as that the WSBT was currently addressing a motion(s) regarding the publication of the 300 books. I also advise them that the outcome of the motion(s), could affect CA as a whole. They took this information under advisement. I told them I should be able to provide them with an answer regarding moving forward by Friday. I was lead to believe that John needed to provide additional information to Canada, and was planning a phone conversation with them as well. John and I also discussed and agreed that the approval of translated versions of our literature were/are/is not approved on the Conference floor.
I also spoke with Tom and advised him of the situation. Tom advised me that there are additional concerns regarding moving forward. The printing of the 300 books only takes into account the removing of HIW, but does not address the updating of the pamphlets in the book that were approved at the Conference, much less the concerns regarding the modification of the Steps and or Traditions. Tom advised me that the final publication of the 300 books in French would be brought to us for additional approval.
I just want to be transparent, and forthcoming regarding these conversations to all of you~ >Terry: PO O: Madame Chair:
I am now confused as to why this was posted. First this was posted by you for us:
There is a motion by Terry: to postpone consideration of the main motion until May 2011, Quarterly meeting, in Phoenix, Arizona. Second by Randy. The floor is open for discussion. Please keep the debate to the motion to “postpone. “
And now while I appreciate the info, being transparent (Thank you) some of this info would of been helpful and however opened a few more questions I believe any of the WSBT had posted this we would be called out of order speaking to the questions brought up in the main motion.
>Kim: Terry… As a Point Of Order…you are questioning as to whether the “rules” have been broken…as to whether or not parliamentary procedure has been broken, or if there has been an improper decorum in speaking. I do not see your POO, question(s). Are you not posing this POO as a opportunity to make a statement, rather than question, or question parliamentary procedure?
And now while I appreciate the in fo , being transparent (Thank you) some of this in fo would of been helpful and however ope ned a few more questions I believe any of the WSBT had posted this we would be called out of order speaking to the questions brought up in the main motion.
Therefore, I will call this out of order…overruled.
You certainly can challenge the chair if you wish, and take my posting to the group as to whether or not I was out of order.
Let me further clarify my posting from yesterday…
The posting that I made when I did, I was only able to secure after my regular 8 hour work day. I made these phone calls at the end of my day. Had I been able to secure this information early, I would have provided it to this body earlier in the process. It is not to be considered
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debate, discussion, or speaking one way or another to the main motion…but rather information that had not been sought, secured, or presented to this body previously. This body has requested that I be transparent, and given that, I thought it was in the best interest of CA to share the information that I sought out.
Lastly….please do not presume what I would or will call out of order. Nearly 50 percent of what was posted yesterday could have been considered “out of order.” Moving forward, I will continue to provide information when I have it, and remain open minded to the thoughts, and actions of this Board.
>Joy: Thank you Kim for this information.
>Richard S.: I speak against the motion:
To postpone is equal to sticking our heads in the sand when there is an issue we know about and should address, we discuss, act on motions and ask questions online throughout the year and I heard no debate as to why we should postpone.
>Russell: I speak against a motion to postpone:
I believe to postpone the main motion would prevent us from missing protecting the fellowship from the being left with new literature with non CA steps/traditions. To postpone simple leaves us where we are until the quarterly and I believe this can be worked on on-line….it would be long and demanding but we should be dealing with it and not postponing.
>Richard L.: The original motion was:
Motion
CAWSO to cease printing, selling and distribution of all French language pamphlets and books (HFC & HFC2) until the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions are corrected to mirror the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions of Cocaine Anonymous as set down in our bylaws.
I believe if the WSBT agrees on this and hands the task to the WSO (with the help of the translation committee and a professional editor) this task can be done.
>Kim: Richard L., this is not the current motion that is under consideration, therefore this discussion is out of order. Please keep all discussion to the “motion to postpone.”
Furthermore, your previous postings, as well as Joy’s, were disrespectful of my request to refrain from discussion on the group that did not pertain to the current motion. >Richard S.: 3 non related posts by the WSOT to the motion on floor:
To postpone consideration of th e main motion until May 2011, Quarterly meeting, in Phoenix, Arizona. Second by Randy. The floor is open for discussion. Please keep the debate to the motion to “postpone.´
It is disruptive and out of order and should not be allowed to continue! >Kim: Thank you Richard, I am aware of this, and have addressed it. >Terry: I would like to withdraw my motion to postpone at this time.
>Kim: As this motion has been stated for the rec ord, and brought before this group and debated, it now be longs to the group. Ther efor e it must be treated as unanimous -consent request. That is, if there are no objections, the motion to postpone is withdrawn.
>Russell: have no objection to the motion to postpone being withdrawn.
>Kim: thank you Russell….
Witnessing no objections to the withdrawal of the ” motion to postpone ” , the main motion will return to the table as follows:
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Motion to have CAWSO cease printing, selling and distributing of all French language pamphlets and books (H F C & H F C2) until the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions are corrected to mirror the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions of Cocaine Anonymous as set down in our bylaws. Second by Terry.
The floor remains open until Friday, May 6th for discussion regarding the above motion.
>Randy: Hi all –
I speak against the current motion as written:
Motion to have CAWSO cease printing, selling and distributing of all French language pamphlets and books (HFC & HFC2) until the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions are corrected to mirror the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions of Cocaine Anonymous as set down in our bylaws.
I have a number of questions regarding the process of “translated” literature that need answers for me to feel “educated”.
My concern is this – I am only assuming that a thorough review/approval process took place in the translation and production of this translated CA literature. I would also assume that the fellowship as a whole believes our translated literature to be considered conference approved.
I believe it’s important to recognize that the WSBT works hard to honor, respect and defend the group conscience of our conference and our approved literature as being representative of our fellowship. I also believe that the WSBT has the right to disagree with a conference approved translation as being representative of our fellowship. And I am very confident that this translation brings up serious issues that need to be addressed before any future publications are produced.
I believe the fellowship that supported this literature has the right to hear our concerns and decide the translation’s fate. We could easily identify enough concern to suspend the printing of any additional literature until the issue is resolved. But withholding the distribution of the approved literature to the addict who needs it while we work through the changes just doesn’t sit right with me.
Don’t get me wrong – I don’t like the fact that there may be literature out there that doesn’t represent this fellowship accurately until this is addressed, but I wouldn’t want any drug addict to go completely without literature in the French language that could possibly save his life while we scurry through the minutia of correcting the translation. >Kim: thank you Randy…
Your debate, for the record, includes three “Points Of Information.”
Although I appreciate the questions, I would suggest that in the future you present your debate and POI’s in separate postings.
Short of calling this debate out of order, I do request that the questions be removed from this posting in the on-line record of business.
I believe your point is made, and reflected despite striking the questions from the record.
thank you~
Randy: thank you.
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Terry: Friendly Amendment: Strike ³selling and distributing´ so it read as:
Motion to have CAWSO cease printing, of all French language pamphlets and books (HFC & HFC2) until the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions are corrected to mirror the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions of Cocaine Anonymous as set down in our bylaws.
Russell: I accept the friendly amendment (albeit reluctantly).
Kim: There is a friendly amendment: to strike “selling and distributing” so that the main motion reads: Motion to have CAWSO cease printing, of all French language pamphlets and books (HFC & HFC2) until the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions are corrected to mirror the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions of Cocaine Anonymous as set down in our bylaws, by Terry. The friendly amendment has been accepted by the motion maker, Russell. According to Robert’s Rules, once the motion has been stated and debated, the motion is “property” of the group, ie: the WSB T . Any amendment, ” friendly ” or otherwise, must be adopted by the full body, either by a vote or by unanimous consent. If even one member objects, the amendment is subject to debate and vote like any other, regardless of whether its proposer calls it ” friendly ” and regardless of whether the maker of the original motion endorses its adoption.
>Richard S.: I do not accept the friendly amendment:
I believe distributing, especially selling items that we have been informed are incorrect is wrong and misleading to our fellowship. We have been informed and I know I verified using multiple translations that the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions of Cocaine Anonymous have been translated with an error as to how our steps and traditions now read, we have this information and should not perpetuate the error but correct it.
Knowing we are discussing this issue and more than likely a change to occur, selling this literature and then changing it and letting the French speaking community in our fellowship know they need to purchase the revised literature seems terribly unfair.
>Kim: As stat ed previously: Any amendment, ” friendly ” or otherwise, must be adopt ed by the full body, either by a vote or by unanimous consent. If even on e member objects, the amendment is subject to debate and vote like any other , regardless of whether its proposer calls it ” friendly ” and regardless of whether the maker of the original motion endorses its adoption. Since Richard S. objects to the friendly amendment, I will therefore now accept debate on the friendly amendment… if there is none by mid-day today; I will call for a vote. >Terry: Our literature is very important to the new person that comes into the rooms of CA. “To the Newcomer´ and also a few other pamphlets were essential to me when a came into the rooms.
I am not making light of this issue. It is to me very vital to the fellowship of CA. I believe and was taught to do the next right thing and correct mistakes as quickly as possible except when to do so is to injure them or others. The cease printing is essential correcting the wrong. By cutting off other materials that we already have in inventory and is the materials that have been working for them for years is injurious to the French who have been waiting for the French translation of our book.
I do not have any idea how long it will take us to get the correct translation or even if there is a correct translation in French. If the wording does not match exactly then it will be a process through the conference and maybe take even longer.
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By not printing anymore incorrectly to me is the right decision.
>Kim: Terry… I will consider this debate to the friendly amendment.
>Terry: Thanks Kim you are correct.
>Russell: Kim, I saw in one of your posts you would be closing debate on the current motion on Sunday, can I ask if you could consider extending this by 24 hours as I will be in Sweden until late on Sunday and will not get much chance to read and digest the posts from my fellows before voting… that’s if there is no objection of course.
>Kim: Discussion on the main motion was to end today, Friday, May 6th. With th e floor now open for debate on the ” friendly amendment ” I will knowledge your right to participation, and extend the debate on the friendly amendment to Sunday, May 8th (PM), with voting to take place Monday, May 9th (A M) on the friendly amendment. Following that, voting on the main motion will take place on Tuesday, May 10th. Thank you everyone for your patience and tolerance.
>Randy: I speak in favor of the friendly amendment. I believe it modifies the original motion to successfully focus on the restriction of any future printing of French translated literature until the corrections are made. It also does not restrict any future motion to deal specifically with the existing inventory.
>Peter: I speak in favor of the amendment to the motion:
We can address the printing issue while still being able to continue getting out the literature we have as needed and I believe that is most important.
>Kenny – Motion:to have CAWSO cease printing, of all French language pamphlets and book s (HFC & HFC2) until the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions are corrected to mirror the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions of Cocaine Anonymous as set down in our bylaws.
I am monolingual. Aside from a few words, I do not articulate the French language at all.
However, I comprehend the spirit of the debate.
Personally, I have nothing to go on when it comes to comparing the difference between the English to French translation. Who among us is fluent enough in French (read/write/translate) to communicate the exact wording of what is and what is proposed/supposed to be? Can someone present a side by side comparison of French to English where I can get this out my foggy imagination and in front of me; so I deal with something concrete. I don’t have enough information to begin to elaborate in an informed manner let along casting a vote. Please excuse me if I am the only one that don’t get it. In order for me to cast a vote with good conscious on something of this magnitude, I would like to have something visual. Thus far, I need more to go on other than what has been put forth verbally. For me, it seems like something is missing. >Kim: Kenny….we are currently discussing the motion to amend…that is to whether or not we should accept the “amendment”. Below is the record of this:
There is a friendly amendment: to strike “selling and distributing” so that the main motions reads: Motion to have CAWSO cease printing, of all French language pamphlets and books (H F C & H F C2) unt il the 12 Steps and 12 Tradition s are correct ed to mirror the 12 St eps and 12 Traditions o f Cocaine Anonymous as set down in our bylaws, by Terry. The friendly amendment has been accepted by the motion maker, Russell. According to Robert’s Rules, once the motion has been stated and debated, the motion is “property” of the group, ie: the WSBT. Any amendment, “friendly” or otherwise, must be adopte d by the full body, either by a vote or by unanimous consent. If even one member objects, the amendment is subject to debate and vote like any other, regardless of whether its proposer calls it “friendly” and regardless of whether the maker of the original motion endorses its adoption.
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As stated previously: Any amendment, “friendly” or otherwise, must be adopted by the full body, either by a vote or by unanimous consent . I f even one member objects, the amendment is subject to de bate and vote like any other, regardless of whether its proposer calls it “friendly” and regardless of whether the maker of the original motion endorses its adoption. Since Richard S. objects to the friendly amendment, I will therefore now accept debate on the friendly amendment…
Your debate is to the main motion….and it reflects more than one Point Of Information.
FYI… the CA Literature Translation Policy is on the WSBT Yahoo group.
Thank you for your participation at this time, although it is out of order, I will allow it to part of the record of on-line business.
>Robert: I speak in favor of the motion because if we cease selling of all French translated material then we are not serving the French speaking part of the fellowship. And the translation was based on the AA French version. And AA recently went back and changed it to the formal French version and not the French Canadian version. I believe it is of upmost importance to have all our translated pieces verified by an independent translator.
>Richard S.: I continue to speak against the motion to amend, again we know there is an error with the literature being distributed and should correct it, immediately.
Addressing the discussion brought forth regarding the newcomer, we are not requesting the current literature be ripped from the tables of CA but cease being distributed by our World service office, the literature already distributed would stand and then the corrected literature could be quickly produced by our newly leased office copier which was brought in / leased with one of the purposes being literature production.
Please be cautious when stating that this motion could have an effect on the newcomer as there could be an effect of one of our newcomers that finds their way into the rooms of Cocaine Anonymous that never used cocaine and when reading the current French literature might be excluded or exclude themselves based of the specificity of the current literature.
We are an inclusive fellowship not a drug / cocaine specific fellowship as their literature currently reads.
Kim: Please prepare yourselves to vote: to accept the friendly amendment:
Please now prepare yourself to vote on the main motion as it NOW reads:
Motion to have CAWSO cease printing, of all French language pamphlets and books (HFC & HFC2) until the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions are corrected to mirror the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions of Cocaine Anonymous as set down in our bylaws.
Tuesday, May 10th, 2011
> Kim: Thanks everyone, the motion for the friendly ” amendment ” passes.
Please now prepare yourself to vote on the main motion as it NOW reads:
Motion to have CAWSO cease printing, of all French language pamphlets and books (HFC & HFC2) until the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions are corrected to mirror the 12 Steps and 12 Traditions of Cocaine Anonymous as set down in our bylaws.
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>Richard S. : Point of information – Madam Chair,
The amendment passed changed the motion initially posted, therefore there ought to be a period for discussion on the newly amended motion.
>Kim: thank you Richard…
As I stated previously on May 6th, record of on-line business: to Russell’s request for extension of discussion…
Discussion on the main motion was to end today, Friday, May 6 th. With the floor now open for debate on the “friendly amendment ” I will knowledge your right to participation , and extend the debate on the friendly amendment to Sunday, May 8th (PM), with voting to take place Monday, May 9th (AM) on the friendly amendment. Following that, voting on the main motion will take place on Tuesday, May 10th.
You should have object on Friday if you felt there to be a Point of Order.
If an amendment carries, which it did, the group does not necessarily vote immediately on the “motion as amended”, debate can be considered… but with respect to the time element (getting agendas out, other business needing approval…etc…)…and at my discretion, voting on the amended motion should be taking place now. However, if indeed there is new discussion of the principle of the original motion, or someone wishes to raise issue with the newly amended motion that was not previously discussed, I will suspend voting, and open the floor to anyone that wishes to speak.
Is that what you wish to do? Debate/discuss something new regarding the principle of the original motion, or raise an issue with the newly amended motion? Do you wish to add something new, that you haven’t already stated? Or is there someone else who objects to the voting process taking place at this time on the amended main motion?
>Richard S.: I have two points of information to the main motion:
What is the current schedule for the printing of French literature? (pamphlets & books) To be clear, I am asking what are the numbers we have in stock of both and when are they scheduled to be printed?
If this vote passes whom (group) is delegated to correct the steps and traditions in French?
>Kim: TWO points of information? Actually you have three…!! This is clearly out of order.
Nevertheless… I will allow the first one at this time… What is the current schedule for the printing of French literature? (when are they scheduled to be printed?) Please refer to previous statements in the discussion of the main motion, information that I posted: I was advised that CA has registered for a copyright number f rom the Canadian “people ” to move forward with the publications. CA had been given a first round “ok “, but needs to provide additional information to complete the process… I was lead to believe that John needed to provide additional information to Canada, and was planning a phone conversation with them as well... I also spoke with Tom and advised him of the situation. Tom advised me that there are additional concerns regarding moving forward. The printing of the 300 books only takes into account the removing of HIW, but does not address the updating of the pamphlets in the book that were approved at the Conference, much less the concerns regarding the modification of the Steps and or Traditions. Tom advised me that the final publication of the 300 books in French would be brought to us for additional approval.
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Therefore the reprint is probably weeks away depending on the outcome of the communication with Canadian “people, and the translation precess the LTC must go through. Additionally, Tom has indicated that the WSBT will be involved in the final publication.
>Richard S.: Thank you for the response to my first point of information;
Point of Information #2 – What is our current office inventory of any French HFC’s (I ask this because when prior discussions at the December quarterly around stickering were going on, my recollection was “some French”) and how much French soft literature / all pamphlets?
>Kim: BTW… two questions in your #2 Point of Information… Can be rephrased into one: What is the current office inventory of any and all French CA literature. I will defer this question to the maker of the motion, and or Richard L. the WSOT. Also, for the future, do not make explanations or discussion a part of your point of information.
>Kim: Just a reminder to everyone….
Voting has been suspended to allow for discussion on the newly amended motion. At this time, I have yield the floor to Russell and or Richard L. to answer Points of Information.
Thanks everyone….
>Russell: Madam Chair, I’ll let Richard L address the inventory stock question.
>Richard L.: I’ve placed a call to the WSO. They’re going to gather the info and forward it to me.
As soon as I get it, I will forward it to the group. It should be in a couple of hours.
>Kim: Richard….do you have any information from the office?
>Richard L.:
| Literature | Amount | |
| HFC | 162 | |
| To the Newcomer | 85 | |
| Choosing Your Sponsor | 56 | |
| What is CA? | 50 | |
| 7th Tradition | 65 | |
| $QG$OO | 66 | |
| Crack | 68 | |
| $JXLGH | 491 | |
| Tools | 62 | |
| Self Test | 60 | |
| A New High | 62 | |
| The First 30.. | 60 | |
| Having Fun in Recovery | 47 | |
| A Higher Power | 24 | |
| Service | 86 | |
| Tips to Staying Sober | 63 | |
| Tips to Prevent or Recover From a | 1 | |
| Relapse | ||
>Kim: Thank you Mr. Leve.
>Richard S.: Thank you very much Richard L.
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Madam Chair, having this information and as my 3rd point of information will not affect my vote, I yield.
>Kim: Thank you Richard….
If there is no other discussion/debate…please continue voting.
Kim: Can everyone please cast their votes…We have additional business to address.
Friday, May 13, 2011
Kim: Being aware that time is limited prior to the Quarterly; I will call the vote with eight of the nine allowed votes casted. The motion passes unanimously. Thank you~
At this time I would suggest that no further business take place on-line, other than posting reports, or items for review prior to the Quarterly meeting. If you wish to add something to the agenda (which I will send out shortly) please let me know.
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