CA WORLD SERVICE BOARD OF TRUSTEES BOARD TO BOARD MEETING MINUTES
August 28th 2011
FINAL
Since this report is a confidential C.A. document for members only, it may contain
members’ full names. This usage to facilitate communication within the fellowship was
approved by the 1990 World Service Conference. Such confidential use does not, of course,
violate in any way our Tradition on anonymity in public communications media (press,
radio, TV, etc).
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Kim S.: Good afternoon everybody, it is Sunday, August 28, 2011, approximately 4:20 pm, pst. Welcome to the Board-to-Board meeting here in the lovely CAWS Office. If we could just start today’s meeting with a quiet time, followed by the Serenity Prayer. God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Thanks everyone, good to have everybody here, and good to be here. We are going to go around the room and have introductions, starting to my right. Before we begin, just a reminder. We are currently looking for a new transcriber, and because of that I ask that we start off the meeting, please identify yourself before speaking for the first three hours so potential new our transcriber can identify the voices when we speak.
Teresa Neighbors, World Service Office Board Vice-Chair.
Richard Schafer, Trustee at Large, WSBT Secretary.
Richard Leve, World Service Office Trustee.
Russell Sedman, European Regional Trustee.
Elizabeth Schmidt-Saldebar, Director at Large, WSOB.
Joy Hutcheson, Pacific South Regional Trustee.
Robert Lyle, Atlantic South Regional Trustee.
Peter De Rafaelle, World Service Trustee.
Bob Campbell, Director, Director at Large, WSOB.
Randy Groen, Southwest Regional Trustee, WSBT Vice-Chair.
Terry Marsden, Pacific North Regional Trustee Kenny Williams, Atlantic South Regional Trustee.
Barry Jacobs, WSOB Treasurer.
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Linda Francisco, Director of Operations, WSO.
Tom Phelan, WSOB Chairperson, OUTGOING!
Kim Sherwan, Midwest Regional Trustee, WSBT Chair, happy to be here, so excited to be here^Tom P.: Welcome to the WSO, thank you for coming from your meeting and coming down here and having the meeting here; I find it useful and very productive to have you here. It is inspiring for the office. The staff gets excited that you’re going to be here and they went to extra measures to get the place cleaned up. We are excited; things are going very smoothly and excited about the direction things are going.
Kim S.: I am very excited to be here. As most of you know this is my last Board-to-Board, we have a full agenda and I am anxious to get at it. We are all happy to be here and anticipating a great conference. Are there any supplemental reports from our other WSOB directors? We did receive all of the reports from Richard Leve.
Bob C.: I did bring those with me; I’ve been traveling. I have copies with me.
Kim S.: Is there anything else additional from the WSOB to the WSBT? We have hard copies of the agenda; if you will all take a moment to review that; if there are any additional items that need to go on it, please let me know at this time. Hearing no further items for this agenda; will move onto our first item, the World Service Conventions, beginning with CAWS 2011.
Randy G.: Arizona thanks you. A lot of hard work, God’s presence and extremely well
attended and participated event by the Fellowship. As you already know, that net gain was
about $129k, which goes a long way to doing what we’re doing. More importantly, we got a
rejuvenated Fellowship. I don’t know if it needed rejuvenation, but there is still a lot of
energy going on; there are still a lot of people talking about the event, not even from a
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financial aspect; how H&I responded, the recovery that took place there. It was an amazing weekend. I would like to thank you all for being a part of that. The pass it ons were completed, we are closed out.
Kim S.: Thank you, Randy; our appreciation to the Arizona area. CAWS 2012.
Russell S.: We are eight months, 24 days, 23 hours and 13 minutes from the start of the convention. Very much looking forward to it; we are gearing up. The subcommittees are very active; there is a lot of communication with the office. It is nice to see that working and Linda is at the forefront of that, thank you for your help with that. Registrations are beginning; we’ve sold 368 beds; that is the figure I’ve got. That is 25% of our figure, what we need to make. It’s so far out, it’s looking good. The registrations seem to be slow, watching previous conventions; I don’t know that there is anything we should be concerned about at the moment. We will just keep raising awareness. I am aware that the office have got some office have some registration forms; they’re being sent out with orders and things like that, so conference next week gives us a wonderful opportunity to, dare I say, wave the flag…The emergency guidelines for petty cash seems to be working quite well. On the bank statements, I did notice it was above the £1,000 that we had asked; I am speaking to the treasurer; he explained there were certain checks. He put his hand straight on the information and he could reconcile that they were outstanding checks. We are keeping an eye on it and have been moving monies over to you. The local operation checking account, we don’t have one at the moment.
Tom P.: May I provide an update?
Barry J.: When I was in Arizona, I met with the Wells Fargo international banking people, which started the process again, after finding out with HSBC that it was not going to be available
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without major hurdles. The process is going, it is not an overnight process; we are not a European and/or UK concern, so they are requiring us to provide them with additional paperwork and major follow-up after the banking debacle in 2008, international banking has been tightened. Things are not as easy as before. The process is started. We actually have a bank account number and we have a bank account. We are just not able to operate until they, meaning Wells Fargo UK, which was Wachovia UK, which is right now from July 29 through August 29 combining and not opening up and accessing anything new until then. They asked us for documentation back in May; we provided that documentation. Wachovia then asked for more documentation, we provided them with more. They came to our office here; they have a local branch office of the international banking in Long Beach. They met with Linda and I, took information, brought it back to them, took it back to Wachovia UK, and asked for more documentation. We are in the process at this time of providing them with that documentation. The problem is, until August 29, nothing can be done. We are on hold with them. Tom is in the process with dealing with his local branch office; he has a relationship there. He can get documentation that is needed notarized, as it needs to be. The people that signed a lot of the original documentation for our Fellowship are no longer available. Even though we can get state documented authorized, this is international; they’re asking for even more documentation. It is just a hurdle, then new hurdles are being put into our process. We have been assured by our side of the international banking that everything is in process, it is not uncommon for what’s happening with us, whether it is a regular business or a non-profit. Being a non-profit, it is a little more…more documents are necessary because it is not a sole proprietorship or independent business that has people documented for it. The original people are not around, whereas if this were a sole proprietorship or a small business the people would be around to do that kind of
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stuff. By October 1 it should be done if we can get them the notarized copies of the documents early in September we should be able to operate this account. We have the account, the account number; we are ready to rock and roll. There are just hurdles, then new hurdles. A lot of this has to do with international banking; a lot has to do with there being a non-profit organization, a lot of that has to do with the banking debacle of 2008. Thank banks just being more diligent on their paperwork. Throw in that “cocaine” is in our title and it may also bring something that needs to be looked at one extra time.
Tom P.: Specifically, the document Barry is speaking of, and I’ve talked to Bob about getting it; they won’t take copies of our registrations. They want originals of the Articles of Incorporation. We have to reapply and Bob is handling that with the state to acquire a new certified copy. They needed the original in their hand. The other item is very simple, we just need to give them, and the motion is a resolution we made on the board authorizing us to open the account. They want the motion notarized. They gave us this information around July 23, so I ran around for 2-3 days because they had to have it before they began the merging of their computer systems. Once they started the merging, they would cease any activity regarding the matter. Our time frame is that after conference is over, we will give them the documents.
Bob C.: I am going to get three certified copies, two for us and one for them.
Tom P.: We have the original CAWS, Inc., we just don’t have the CAWSO, Inc. documents.
Randy G.: As we may be approached during the conference regarding folks that pay attention and understand the situation, do we have anything in writing from Wachovia or Wells Fargo that say XYZ is all you have left…
Tom P.: Yes, we do.
Kim S.: August 19, that email loop was sent out. It’s all there.
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Joy H.: We have the account number; we have two documents that need to be filed. Is there any way we can get constant updates of where we’re at, so once you get the documents you can let us know?
Barry J.: Believe me, you’ll know without a phone…
Joy H.: I think that seems to be an issue with this board, we’re feeling lost without knowing. In my opinion, we’ve been talking about this for three years. Now the convention is almost here. We would really like consistent updates, maybe to the chair, who can update the rest of the board.
Russell S.: Thanks for the update. It’s been a trudge. I’m in a place where I would like us to consider some sort of contingency on what else we can look into.
Tom P.: I would say that would be a waste of time for us. We are so close, that would distract us, take us off track, we really need to stick with this; we are going to have this. Wells Fargo has merged with Wachovia. If you’ve read through our stuff, we’ve communicated with I believe four different Wells Fargo people. I believe if we did that, went with HSBC, it would be a bad idea to change.
Russell S.: I’m not saying change, keep our foot on the gas moving forward with this, but also start looking at what other options are available to us. Without being at all critical, as I know it’s been a trudge, however, I have heard before we are almost there. I am not dismissing where we are at the moment.
Richard L.: In response to Joy and the rest of the trustees, I feel that some of my communication obviously hasn’t been very well on this matter. What I will do going forward with Barry and the next chairperson here, and if Tom is still in the loop with this thing here, wherever you go, the procedure that goes forward with it, you’ll give it to me in written form, I will forward it to the
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WSBT so you guys will be right on base as soon as I get the information. We will trudge this road of banking destiny together.
Barry J.: I will make sure updates are forwarded back through Richard to the trustees, Kim please feel free to contact me directly if you have any other questions from the board. Rather, the new chair should contact me, I am happy to have anyone from Wells Fargo, Adrian Reid, who is based out of Phoenix, Jonathan, who is based in Long Beach, create a report stating what they think. Regarding a contingency plan, I don’t want to say we’ve brought it up; we do have emergency guidelines for banking now in place that is working to a point. I have talked to Wells Fargo and American Express. Wells Fargo has the same thing, we can do international express transfers if necessary from our bank account domestically. It is a bit more expensive, it is more difficult to deal with going from the US to the UK, paying bills from our accounts here to there can be done much easier. The problem isn’t that. The problem will happen at the end of the convention, bringing the money home. I want you to understand what the situation is. That’s why, as long as we have an account before the end, so we can put all this money into it, that’s where we need to be. Up until that point, between the emergency international guidelines that we put into place, credit cards, us sending checks from the odd-year account here, bills can get paid and things can get done, nothing should be slowed down on the European side for anything that needs to get done. If they send a spending request, we can pay that. If there is anything along those lines, it can be done. The money that is being put into Reg Online is getting transferred into our account right now. Anything electronically transferred is being transferred into our accounts here into the correct account. It’s all just like a normal convention as if it was in the US. The international account that would be opened needs to be in place before the convention to bring the money home because that’s where the sticky wicket would be of comingling.
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Russell S.: I agree, and I have observed the office paying bills, bank drafts going that way. My concern and my suggestion based around a contingency is around that. During that convention week, having wads of money and what we’re going to do with them. I just feel it would be prudent to explore another way of bringing that money home safely.
Tom P.: Do you have any ideas?
Russell S.: I think it’s one we’ve touched on in the past; I felt it was inappropriate at the time. CAUK have recently registered as a CA England and Wales, Ltd.; plus they are registered under the charitable organization, they’re listed. We are also quite fortunate, as well as having some very informed people here; it just so happens that the Area treasurer is an accountant. His partner is a solicitor who is versed around charitable organizations. I am wondering if, as a last resort, if we needed to set up, if we could bring together an ad hoc committee looking at the possibility of having an independent bank account under the umbrella of CAUK with some signatures of members of the WSOB simply for the purpose of moving the money in case of an emergency during the course of the weekend. I don’t know the tax implication of that, I don’t understand the tax implications it may have for CAUK; we do have access to both Alexis and Matt, who I believe would be able to maybe answer some of those questions initially if we needed to ask for help.
Randy G.: Do we know if there is a dollar value of monies passed through the current emergency process that puts those individuals at risk at exposure to any liability regarding.. .at what point in time does so much money, or is there an amount of money that runs through that account that puts them in some tax liability and some money moving liability? Do we know what those limits are and how much have we already moved through that account?
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Tom P.: I don’t think that really matters, it is a business account, and they don’t have triggers based on a gross amount of income. They’re going to have an expense that offsets the income and that’s going to be the payment to CAWSO, Inc. There will be zero net income tax effect. There is a VAT issue; we’ve already figured that in. It’s paid the suppliers, the hotel.
Elizabeth S.: I think this is such a healthy conversation. Just as a thought, because I’m not really involved in all of this other than hearing your reports. It sounds to be from what Barry and Tom have reported that this will be closed in October. Maybe a solution, if this is not rectified in October, at the November/December quarterly, at the Board-to-Board, immediately an ad hoc committee comes forward and finds a different solution. It could be CAUK, or something like that. We sound close, I also know, because Barry’s done so much work regarding the other opportunities such as American Express, there are other solutions. I think if we could just focus our energy on this, we do have some time. This account does not necessarily have to be active and ready to go until right before the end of May. If it works for this group, maybe we can allow them time to continue to get this completed by November. With active communication that both Barry and Richard mentioned, I think we will know by the middle of October. If we’re not there, we’re thinking about other ideas and moving forward. There is a lot to do, and this is a high priority.
Kim S.: This has been a really healthy discussion at the WSBT today, when we rolled out today, a motion that is currently in front of was tabled. I think we don’t wait until November to have an ad hoc committee. That ad hoc committee should be determined today so that on October 2 it is moving forward. I personally have had several discussions with Russell and understand their steering committee’s concerns and we’re saying October 1. As we’ve already discussed, we’ve had several setbacks. Maybe we can put that into place as a precursor to the contingency.
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Bob C.: I can appreciate the point that you’ve been hearing this for a long time and it’s getting closer. If we were to set up an alternative account, is there a difference in terms of what it’s going to cost us without using the Wells Fargo or setting up another contingency account? Is there going to be a difference in terms of what we end up with? The UK account, for example, with some of our board members; and that’s not exactly what we’re setting up, correct?
Tom P.: No, we’re setting up a CAWSO, Inc. account in the UK.
Bob C.: So if we on one hand; put all of our revenue in one account in the Wells Fargo CAWSO, Inc. account, is that going to save us more money than if we don’t do the CAWSO, Inc. but the other way?
Tom P.: I don’t think there is any difference.
Barry J.: One, bank accounts in England, finding out through both HSBC and Wells Fargo/Wachovia cost money. If you understand accounts in the US, bank fees are usually offset by deposits and other matters. In the UK there is a maintenance fee for an account.
Tom P.: Is it around $300?
Barry J.: It’s about £120 per month plus whatever activities you do.
Tom P.: The later we open it, the better.
Barry J.: It costs almost $300 a month, whether right now, maybe four checks in the last 60 days would have cost us £120 times 1.6 which is about $210 in fees we would be paying on this account and/or any other account in England having a business account. It is part of the fees involved owning an account in England that we are not paying right now. If we were utilizing an alternative UK account, CAUK account, we would have to reimburse them for whatever fees they pay. Their fees are different than ours, just in operation, mainly because in the UK and Europe, they write very few checks. Everything is done through ACH, electronic transfer system,
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which then throws into another can of worms we can discuss. Things are paid through electronic transfers as opposed to a hard copy check that we utilize in the US. I am just trying to let you people understand that. I do agree, if you’d like to, I would be glad to be part of the ad hoc committee and up until October 1 or 2, I will keep you in line, I feel it will definitely be me and Russell and whoever else wants to be on this ad hoc committee, we can attack it from that point. Also, Russell, being there, you can take a few minutes out of your time and find, see if there are other alternatives.
Joy H.: I am all in favor of the ad hoc committee being formed here and now, ready to be in place October 2. I think it’s important for us, and more important for the European Fellowship, the convention committee that is working so hard for us to put on a fundraiser for the office. What is the VAT percentage?
Tom P.: 17.5%.
Russell S.: 20%
Joy H.: Do we know what the tax is going to be for the convention, is there going to be tax liability right off hand?
Tom P.: We pay the Value Added Tax (VAT) when we pay the suppliers. It is in the budget.
Joy H.: The suppliers are 20% and hotel is 17.5%?
Tom P.: No, when we originally negotiated the contract, they put it at 17.5%, now it is 20%.
Joy H.: Thank you.
Peter D.: I heard in the past about American Express. Has anybody talked to American Express to see what that’s all about? What happened, if you don’t mind my asking?
Barry J.: American Express does not have accounts in the UK per se for what we are looking at. What they do have is a foreign exchange program, which all major banks have. This is basically
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an electronic/paper payment system for any foreign currency. In other words, if you want to pay a vendor in England, we can electronically go onto our American Express account, take the money out of wherever we choose, put it into American Express and they will then forward it through their FX division either by paper or electronically to whomever we ask them to pay it. Wells Fargo does the exact same thing, as do most major financial institutions. Every time money is deposited it costs money, every time money is removed, it costs money. There are charges to speak to customer service. It is a payment service, not an account. I did look into it, I also looked into electronic payment systems, PayPal, Zoom.. .To pay somebody it is not difficult. The American dollar is not difficult to transfer to anywhere in the world depending on the fee you want to pay to do so. The difficult part is that we are a US corporation that is going to get paid in British Sterling and want to bring the money back from the UK to the US. That is our problem.
Tom P.: What we are concerned about is the currency collected at the convention. Everything else goes into our account, credit cards, Reg Online. Just currency, that’s about $25-30,000. Richard S.: When the discussion has brought up is the good thing is we don’t have this, we are saving money on the transactions. What I think we need to keep in mind is that we are operating outside of our own guidelines. We shouldn’t be pleased that we are so far out from providing this account, let’s be responsible to whom we work for. We are asked to follow the work that’s done by the conference, so we should do our best. I will say that some of the unknowns on the money, the taxes, things like that, that was said loud and clear by Tom at the podium when this was awarded. These are things that are unknown that we have to work through, that is a fact. I just want to make sure we have a responsible answer when we are asked why we don’t have an account. The guidelines say, “Once a convention is awarded, the account is opened.” There are
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reasons that things haven’t happened and some things may have been follow-through that didn’t fit into a timeline that have now put us into this concern, however we need to do out best and our best is probably to have a contingency. I hear the absolute confidence that this is going to happen on October 1. I believe that you believe that, and I believe you! I think maybe we should safeguard ourselves and have a thought process in place or something maybe where we could react—and I mean that word react—if something doesn’t occur and we need to step up and help each other.
Russell S.: This is a great discussion; I appreciate the open-minded review of this. I’m not saying that the CAUK help might be the only way to go, but I don’t have the authority to say let’s use the CAUK account, so there’s also the necessity to allow an area the opportunity to enter their ASC, discuss this, and we would all hope they would absolutely want for the greater good, let’s help. They’re going to need their time to go through that process of “do they want to?” and whilst I hear let’s wait until October 2, I would like to be the voice of why wait with those basic questions. Surely we know what we’re trying achieve. Why can’t we at least have a list of questions and see if we can begin beforehand?
Kim S.: There are still three people on the list to speak. I think that putting together an ad hoc committee today does not limit them to doing any of the footwork necessary to take action on October 2. Unless the people on the list have something additional or different to say, I would like to…
Terry M.: I would like to make a motion to form an ad hoc committee to look at alternate financial planning for the 2012 CAWS convention.
Elizabeth S.: Parliamentary inquiry. Can we find out who is able to vote on these particular motions, because there were questions last time we did this.
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Kim S.: I am going to call your motion out of order and proceed with what I was saying. I will entertain volunteers to participate on an ad hoc committee to move forward with preparation in the event October 1 does not become a reality. Joy, Tom, Randy, Russell, Barry, Richard L. Thank you all very much. Moving forward, I hope these people make the time to communicate and have put together some discussion questions and thoughts about how to move forward in the event October 1 does not become a reality, that we can take some action on the 2nd. From now until October 2nd there is work to be done.
Russell S.: Can we consider a bit of consideration for the area? Are we looking at UK bank accounts?
Tom P.: No.
Barry J.: Let’s have a meeting first.
Kim S.: Thanks everyone for the conversation. Anything else for Russell and CAWS 2012?
Richard S.: Can someone please discuss what the WSBT spoke about regarding dates and travel while I type?
Kim S.: The WSBT decided to conduct their business beginning May 21, ending May 28. This does not dictate travel dates, only the conducting of business at the convention. The quarterly will begin on the 21st. The arrivals will be the night of May 20th, with respect to expenses. Richard S.: The reason I wanted it mentioned here, in an effort to be proactive and get the best deals we can for airfare and any of us that may call the office for having airfare charged, and not having all of it hit four months before, we set a date so we can hopefully save money. We now know when we are scheduled to arrive; I thought the information might be helpful to the WSOB in planning their travels in knowing when we are traveling. We are passing along the information in trying to establish the conducting of our business, to hopefully save money.
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Bob C.: I might suggest that because you might be asked at the conference how much money is budgeted for the trustees’ trip for their meeting and convention. I don’t plan on asking that question, but I can think of probably 100 people that might. You may want to have that number. Kim S.: It was discussed. The WSBT plans to discuss business from May 21-28, inclusive of their night at the hotel on May 20th. Yes, there was considerable discussion regarding the expenses and how we can reduce those. We are prepared.
Bob C.: I am not questioning that; I’m just saying it would be a good idea to have that.
Kim S.: Just keep in mind, this year the third quarter meeting will not take place in order to offset some of the costs.
Joy H.: It was removed from the budget last year.
Richard S.: Thank you for mentioning it, Bob.
Kim S.: CAWS 2013.
Kenny W.: CAWS 2013. Currently everything is looking pretty good. Most of you already know that the hotel has been chosen. The Westin hotel, it’s going to be on the beach in Ft. Lauderdale. The date has not been chosen yet; however we have chosen a theme, Splash of Sobriety. Unknown: Cute.
Kenny W.: That is subject to change. It’s cute, but subject to change, because the Splash of Sobriety’s been tossed around and sounds like AA so it may be a Splash of Serenity or Splash by the CA or, it’s subject to change. It may not, but it’s subject to change, because it has a tone of another Fellowship. We are looking for artwork right now; we have the word out for artwork. The Yahoo group is up and running. Petty cash has been moved over to the office; the petty cash account has been set up. The odd-year account is up and running. Only two of the positions need to be filled on the steering committee. Everything is going pretty good right now. Fundraising is
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starting to pick up in the area. They already sent $4,000 to CAWSO, so with that, I don’t have any other input.
Kim S.: Just to clarify, you’re talking about the general committee; the steering committee is completely staffed, correct?
Kenny W.: I’m sorry, the general committee, you’re right, that’s correct. The steering committee is staffed fully. Thank you for that.
Richard L.: Barry, we have to get Kenny signed on the checking account?
Barry J.: We can do that this week.
Richard L.: So we will do that this week. Kenny, I’ve got to take you to Wells Fargo and put you on the checking account while you’re here in town.
Peter D.: To add onto that, the contract for the hotel was sent back with some changes that we asked; they did all but one, that was the 10% for the food and beverages for the Fellowship, so I am going to sit down with Tom and Richard this weekend and discuss that. She said she wasn’t able to do that because of the way they do business, so they gave us a couple of little incidentals, like some free Internet and instead of $25 each time they rekey the rooms, it will be a $25 flat charge. They saved some money for us, but with nothing to give the Fellowship as far as a 10% discount, so that’s the thing I’m going to be working on, sitting down with Tom and Richard and talking about that this week and see what we can do and then send it back to them and see if we can get it, and if not, we need to sit down with the negotiating committee and see what they want to do if they won’t give us the 10%.
Elizabeth S.: Kenny, thank you so much. I know last year the UK came, and they presented, they did a big PowerPoint, got the Fellowship really excited about the World Convention. Are our friends from Florida going to come and do something similar, be there and get us excited.
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Kenny W.: Probably not.
Elizabeth S.: Okay.
Kenny W.: If so, I haven’t heard anything about it.
Elizabeth S.: Are the chairs coming, anyone representing?
Kenny W.: A couple of the delegates will be here from the area but the chair will not be here. Elizabeth S.: Just as a thought, because one of the things, being in business and forward thinking, we have UK kind of here; now we have to be kind of thinking about Florida. We kind of need to help the delegates be enthusiastic from the podium; talk about how great Florida is going to be after the UK?
Kenny W.: Yeah, for sure.
Elizabeth S.: Do we have pictures of the hotel, maybe some Florida music?
Randy G.: What dates?
Kenny W.: The dates have not been chosen.
Joy H.: For the convention? It’s the same date every year.
Kim S.: I show May 20-28, 2013.
Richard S.: The actual convention is May 23-27, 2013.
Kenny W.: It’s May 20-28.
Kim S.: That is inclusive of the quarterly, the convention starts on the 23rd.
Kenny W.: That actually takes place the weekend of…
Barry J.: Memorial Day weekend.
Peter D.: On the contract, Sunday, May 19 through May 28. You said the 20th.
Kim S.: Anything else for Kenny?
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Kenny W.: I would just like everybody know that the event’s date will be Monday, May the 20th, through Tuesday, May 28th.
Kim S.: Thanks Kenny. Any questions? CAWS 2014.
Joy H.: We will be announcing the steering committee at conference, for our potential candidates, they will know before conference ends. We do not have a hotel yet. We will have a hotel as soon as the steering committee gets rolling and the hotel liaison is chosen. The event is moving forward, and we foresee no problems with the LA area throwing a fabulous convention in Long Beach. Rather the Pacific South Region.
Randy G.: Your comment regarding PowerPoint stuff, I think the UK would be putting a PowerPoint on at this conference.
Elizabeth S.: Last year they did London Calling, the Clash song.
(way too much cross talk…)
Randy G.: Because we did one last year for Arizona.
Kim S.: Copyright and trademark protection. I think we can refer to our minutes in reference to that. We are following up via Peter and Russell on the letters CA and getting that secured in Europe, is that correct? Do we need any further discussion about that?
Peter D.: That’s all, I’m in the process right now, there were some questions by the attorney, Russell sent me the stuff, I sent it to the attorney, I haven’t heard back from him so everything I guess is okay. They are proceeding forward with that. The letter that was sent to Bob, Bob is changing it, the original letter Kenny sent to me, I sent to Bob, Bob has a friend of his who is a trademark attorney he is going to squeak it out, clean it up. Then there was the letter Terry was going to send to the Edmonton people.
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Kim S.: We’re just talking about the trademark and copyright protection, so I’m going to cut you off. Item number 3, the NADCP Drug Court follow up letters to drug court contacts and information regarding International Drug Court, referred to either Linda or Richard Schafer. Linda S.: We had a very exciting weekend at Drug Court. We actually signed up 212 people, who came by our booth and gave us their name, address and so forth. I want to say they were from 32 states. I put this in my report for the conference so if my numbers are a little bit off take the one I did for conference, it is accurate. Eight from Canada, five from other countries, and I have them all entered into the database and as soon as conference is over I will work with Richard and Robert on a letter to get sent out to them. Michael is to do another follow-up letter three months later, and another follow-up letter before the next Drug Court. We had the opportunity to host three CA meetings. The first one was actually during convention hours, so Richard and Robert went. There were a couple of local people. The next night we had the last meeting on the schedule, I was very excited to be able to attend, there were 20-25 people in attendance, and for some of them it was there very first opportunity to attend a CA meeting; because in their areas there are no CA meetings. They kind of go to AA meetings. It was very refreshing to know that it was the first time one young lady could stand up and say she was an alcoholic and an addict; it kind of brought tears to all of our eyes, it was very important to her to be there. All in all, it was a good experience. I do have follow-up plans, I got sidetracked with conference; as soon as conference is over I will work with Richard and Robert I will work on the letter to send out.
Richard S.: It was Linda’s first Drug Court, Robert and I had been there before. She fit right in, took charge and handled things well. It was a pleasure; we worked well, we communicated. Being at the prior drug courts, when I started, people who had been there before me showed me
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what to do and talked to me. It is the same information I passed along. In another year, Linda can pass the information to the next people who will be showing up. That’s something I wanted to mention. Next year’s Drug Court we will need to leave directly from the UK convention and go straight to Tennessee. Drug Court begins two days after the convention closes, giving us one travel day, as the DOO stays one day after the convention. Keep that in mind with everything we are tasking the office with following convention, Linda will have a full plate; as well as the office staff, getting everything moved and shifted. These are things to be considered, and just part of the job, Kenny. They just go where they tell us. We’re very excited. We do have the prior year’s letters to follow-up on also. Did that list make it anywhere in the office?
Tom P.: That’s with Jay. We never got it.
Richard S.: That’s the only thing we need to follow-up on, finding out on the prior year’s list. We can see if we can make use of the contacts we made a few years ago and still reach out. Thank you Linda, for your help and participation.
Linda F.: You’re welcome.
Kim S.: On the radar is International Drug Court in Toronto. The dates are February 29-March 2. We are hoping to address that as well.
Richard S.: Yes, that will be something we need to look at financially. We have a timeframe now. We missed it last year. It’s more expensive, but if it fits into a timeline, we know that the local Fellowship, though it is not CAWS, rather the local Fellowship shows up and represents CA; they have participated. I’ve spoken to that member. With the expenses we have coming up this year, this may not be the year to try and make it. With the travel we have, this may not be the year; it’s something we should discuss. It sounds great, and last year, very exciting and we
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thought about going. This year, being this upcoming February, it may not be something we can strive for and I would follow the lead of the treasurer and the chairs.
Kim S.: Item 4, CA Helpdesk site. Just to have this remain on our agenda, we are looking to the Fellowship for potential helper to help get this done. Information regarding previous responses from the WSBT will be handed off so that in the future they may be uploaded. These are frequently asked questions.
Richard L.: I explained that lack of manpower or human power is our dilemma here. We are looking to the Fellowship for help or anywhere we can get it, we just don’t have the manpower to do it.
Elizabeth S.: Does the WSBT have a central repository for all its responses from history in the Yahoo group still? How is that handled? Is there maybe another place it can be backed up? I think as we continue to grow, it’s important to have as many central repositories as we possibly can.
Kim S.: My recollection of my four years is that there actually was a Helpdesk site that was accessible by the trustees, and we were working with our former Webservant. Frequently asked questions with responses were being uploaded. Over the past three years, I have been compiling all responses in word documents to get to the former Webservant. No, they’re not on our Yahoo group. They were to be loaded to a Helpdesk website. The word documents I do have, I plan to give to the next secretary.
Peter D.: I have a question for Richard Schafer. Are we looking for a new server to go along with this Helpdesk deal?
Richard S.: I can pass along the information that in looking at transitioning to a new hosting company…Ryan is looking for a new hosting company and the dependencies of what is stored
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on there like a searchable database depends on not only where you’re hosted, but what engines are available where you’re hosting. Ryan, our Webservant, is aware of this, and making the selection. We have discussed it and I’ve provided him with a few options for hosting companies. The dependency is on him making the selection, bringing up the site. The website itself is a lot to do. It is a large commitment. It’s not like, well, he’s finished with the website, he should be able to do this helpdesk. The helpdesk was offered to us, generated and built by the former Webservant. That doesn’t mean that the current Webservant has the same opportunities and time available to do the work. That is why it is suggested someone work along with him that maybe can support this task.
Peter D.: What about an outside vendor?
Richard S.: I would first look to, in my personal opinion and experience with our last Webservant, that the Webservant should be a paid position before we pay someone to facilitate a helpdesk site. It is a lot of work.
Joy H.: Does the office need extra computers to put a serve on? Do you have the hardware?
Tom P.: We need a new server; we need new hardware. We have an XP system, it no longer issues security updates. At some time this year, I’ve just told Linda, it needs to be on the WSOB agenda, hardware to serve that purpose.
Joy H.: I think I have a couple of computers that are not even a year old that could be donated to the office.
Several: Thanks Joy.
Richard S.: For informational purposes, the internal server for the office, the file server where people store things is very different from the web server.
Joy H.: But if they’re good computers, you can utilize them.
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Richard S.: Not for webhosting services. We do not have the Internet connection or security, nor the OS, nor the manpower to manage it.
Elizabeth S.: I wasn’t really talking about the Helpdesk. I was saying one thing that’s been really kind of wonderful to participate and be a part of is we have our LCF publication liaison person who is now working with the office in trying to get all accurate information to a central repository at the office. My question is more, any letters, documents that the WSBT to the Fellowship or to anyone, really, I think it would be great if we could have those put together and sent to the office as an additional place of storage.
Kim S.: They are stored right now; any responses from the WSBT email box are stored on Network Solutions, our current host. Item number 5, ad hoc committee regarding HFC 2, the subcommittee.
Joy H.: I found out that out of the 3,235 that were sold between February and June 30, 13 cases went to Drug Court, 10 cases went to Arizona, and 24 cases went to the UK on the order. 88 cases were sold to the Fellowship. That accounts for the 3,235 books. I think a lot of the 88 cases were backordered cases held over.
Elizabeth S.: We talked about the timeline, and the turnaround time is four months, that would be to make the corrections, we have to sit down, read them, make sure they are corrected, get the bids, then the printing. We can have the book back in our hands in four months. That was the discussion that the office had.
Tom P.: That’s with an outside vendor.
Kim S.: Where are we at this point, I remember reading the minutes, you all sitting here at the office doing that. Where are we in that four-month process?
Elizabeth S.: We have made the corrections.
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Tom P.: We’ve identified the corrections between the pamphlets and the book. They are all now identified, and we are working on that.
Linda F.: We are working on getting the bids. I have the company that did the
last printing, and I have a new company to get another bid.
Kim S.: Maybe in the next 60 days we will have information regarding that?
Linda F.: Sooner than that. It won’t be done, but there will be more information.
Tom P.: It really won’t take too long, Terry’s seen it.
Joy H.: We still 14,000 and 9,000 hard cover books.
Bob C.: We have already begun the four-month time period, correct? Are we halfway through the four-month time period?
Joy H.: Four months from now.
Elizabeth S.: We will have new books in our hands.
Joy H.: Without How It Works, without the AA literature.
Tom P.: And with all of the pamphlet changes updated.
Barry J.: If we have a new book, what do we do with the books we have in stock? Has the ad hoc committee and/or any other committee.
Tom P.: Those books are to be sold internationally.
Joy H.: The UK and Canada, who are currently getting stickered books, will get a clean book. Kim S.: Item number 6, 7th tradition/money from abroad and deposits. Tom,
Russell, Barry?
Tom P.: Here’s what I bring up about the 7th tradition. The 7th tradition has declined dramatically over the last four years, dramatically almost to the point of being one-half of what it was four years ago. If we are prudent, we need to continue to project that it’s going to continue to be less
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and that means that ambitious programs we are talking about aren’t available. The only place this can take place is between the trustees and their regions.
Kim S.: The regional trustees are going to address this at their caucuses this week, utilizing Peter, Richard Leve, and Richard Schafer to assist if need be. Try to generate more information. Obviously we are going to have the contribution program pamphlets on-site.
Bob C.: To follow-up on this, we talked about this at a meeting a while back and even though we made $129,000 at the Arizona convention, between what was already budgeted to make on the convention and the loss of the 7th tradition, I think we’re breaking even, barely. I think it’s really important when people talk to us about how much money we made at the convention, we have to make sure the Fellowship understands, thank God we made that kind of money because we’re just breaking even with our budget. It may be helpful in getting more 7th tradition, to say the point is we’re down so much, it’s all eaten up in the reduction of the 7th tradition.
Kim S.: I think some focus we discussed is not only on the 7th tradition donation, but encouraging our members to buy the book, buy the literature, utilize the birthday envelope, buy the principle coin. I’m sure all of this wonderful material will be at the conference for them to purchase. Our Fellowship, all of us, and have at times have challenging financial issues. We have to be sensitive to that and not hammer away at “dig deep,” try to help so we can get our literature out to.. .the big push was to get the book to the jails.
Elizabeth S.: I think it’s really important; I want to say it again. If our 7th tradition decreases, that means our program services and what we can offer to our Fellowship decreases. Anything that would come forward on the floor, whatever that may be; put the PSA in this year’s budget or anything like that, we are not going to be able to afford that. It’s really important that the regional trustees really have those good relationships with your areas. Talk about what your
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money is for. That’s one of the reasons we meet here, at the office; because you can see all of the program services. I think being a part of the conference and finance committee and the WSO is all about education. We are constantly getting new alternate delegates and delegates in and they don’t know. It becomes our job to help them understand. I would hate for us as a Fellowship not to provide services that we would like to provide to the addicts who still suffer because we are unable to meet our 7th tradition budget.
Joy H.: If the regional trustees need help, the reality is that last year we were at a -$10,000, this year we are at a +$15,000, so the reality is that we made up the loss from last year and we’re only technically ahead $5,000.
Barry J.: The other thing I want to let you guys know, is over the four years, the office expenses have been reduced dramatically. We have fewer employees getting the same amount of work or as much work done. We have this space we are in right now, it is costing us over $800 less than our previous space. We have a more advanced photocopy machine at about the same price, but tremendously more advanced. We are doing more with less. Make sure the Fellowship understand that we have, in this office, tightened our belt. We are not frivolously spending. At one time there were five paid employees. Being regional trustees, going to the Fellowship in your areas and explaining to them why we may not be able to do as big of a psa or some of the reasons as to why we cannot do that.
Bob C.: In years past, when we’ve had these issues in the history of Cocaine Anonymous, it came to light that we had substantial reserves that we were stockpiling money. A lot of times the regional trustees would make a move on those areas to encourage them to make the donations and among other things, remind them that there have been a lot of problems with areas who gather together too much money, they end up losing the money without donating it. I know in the
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past, the trustees have targeted areas that have been doing that, and with love and support, actively encouraged them to let go of some of the money. I don’t know if that’s going on now, but if it is, we should probably do that.
Kim S.: I think we’re probably all aware of an areas within our regions that are not following the 70/30 plan.
Bob C.: When it’s done effectively, the 7th tradition can really make a big jump.
Elizabeth S.: I remember a piece written by Jay called “When Trust is Lost,” and the only reason I am bringing this up is I think it’s really important to understand it can kind of become a double- edged sword in the sense of we have only three employees doing the work of five. So there becomes frustration in the office. Then they lose trust in CA World Services, because they’re not able to get everything done in the timeframe they want, they quit sending money. Somehow, it’s not even a conversation for right now, it’s something to think about, a solution and how to rebuild trust and communication. I love doing translations; I would hate to not be able to do translations. That could be one of the things that will have to go because we don’t have the money to do it and we are just trying to keep above water. I would love to think of other solutions and how to communicate that well within our Fellowship.
Kim S.: Thanks, everybody. This has been an in-depth conversation on the WSBT as well, we are very much aware of the situation and we are planning to be proactive to alleviate some of the loss.
Randy G.: It was discussed at our meeting earlier, I would like to make mention, it is delicate. When giving a report, Barry, to the conference, I think that, I know that the recognition even so much in Arizona where the Fellowship continues to grow, our 7th tradition continues to grow, however our costs for hosting our meetings grows faster. I have had a feeling in the last couple of years from talking to people that they believe Cocaine Anonymous is shrinking because
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they’ve heard that our 7th tradition is less and less and I wanted to at least make mention of that here that that’s not the case. Cocaine Anonymous is growing. It might not be recognized in an increase at the WSO, so I want to make sure we recognize that there is a situation out there in our Fellowship that is not getting the money here and at the same time not take that to a point or spin that in such a way that we’re not sending an accurate message. Our 7th traditions to the WSO are down. I’m not sure how to do that, I would like you to consider those things when we have those conversations in the hallways, from the podium, that we don’t tell an entire conference what they perceive for the third year in a row that our Fellowship is getting smaller. I think it’s important for us to try to find a way to present both of these; a problem that needs some look, but not so negative that people decide to jump ship.
Elizabeth S.: Does someone want to write a letter to the Fellowship, signed by the WSOB and WSBT?
Tom P.: Is there empirical evidence that the Fellowship is growing? You guys have access better than we do. Are there more members and more groups?
Linda F.: There are 74 more groups.
Kim S.: I think what Randy is focusing on is that I don’t know if growth is actually progressive, but what we have is consistent, but the cost of a group, whereas we used to pay $25 to rent the space once a week, now the facility thinks maybe you should give us $40 because they’re being proactive in their financial pursuit of maintaining their facility. I cannot say specifically in my region that meetings are growing, but I don’t know that they are shrinking either. I think that is a key word. The cost of a meeting is more, the financial struggles and challenges of our members have changed over the years, so maybe instead of $2.00 they put in $1.00. Or instead of $1.00 they don’t put in anything. Unfortunately that is happening.
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Tom P.: My observation on the group’s in Arizona and South Orange County is that it’s growing. Our groups are double the size they were three years ago, but the 7th tradition isn’t and the rents are up. I don’t know if that is the case in the entire Fellowship. I know we were at the CALA convention; it was a third of what it usually has been.
Barry J.: I just want to remind people; there are suggested guidelines for groups and areas on division of 7th tradition. Maybe that needs to be reminded, put back out there that world service 70/30. Maybe it’s just because when things are tight, those things may be, I don’t want to say forgotten. Instead of having gourmet coffee and better chips and stuff on the table…
Kim S.: That’s not for us to say, what people eat or drink at a meeting.
Linda F.: I was just going to make note of a couple of things. Even though I can tell you how many new meetings we started, unless we call a number, we don’t know how many meetings disband. On a personal note, when one is on somewhat of a fixed budget, gasoline to get to your meeting has probably doubled, maybe tripled in the last couple of years. Where you used to put in $5.00; that now goes in the gas tank to get to the meeting. It’s economics.
Bob C.: If you look at the last few 7th tradition listings on the NewsGram, most areas are not giving money to CAWSO, it’s meetings. There are two or three areas in each state. It is a huge issue, these areas are not giving World money. All I’m saying is, it’s not a matter of less meetings, it’s not a matter of the rent being raised in the churches, it’s a matter of these areas not giving the WSO money, whether it’s $25 or $2,500, they’re just not doing it. There is work that needs to be done with this, cause something’s wrong. Areas are not giving any money to World Services. That is not the way it used to be. We have work in Los Angeles to do, I know, and I’m going to start doing it. I’m just saying it is a huge problem. If you look at the NewsGram you’ll
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see most of the areas are not donating, that is a huge problem. No wonder the 7th tradition is down.
Kim S.: Status of the WSO, the policies regarding employees working at the office and doing service work. It is a previous concern brought forth by, actually I have your name Randy. Richard, you reported to us but ongoing is the concern of certain employees at the office doing local service work.
Randy G.: My concern would be that if an employee of the WSO held a position of treasurer for a local group, for an area, for a district, just a matter of business principle, you would have an individual who is cutting a check and also responsible as a paid employee to receive a check, or have the opportunity to. That is not just a conflict of interest but a dangerous position to have any of our employees be in, to represent a group, meeting, district, or area, and be able to have the ability to write that check and make that check seem deposited without it going where it belongs. I think that’s the most obvious scenario of a fiscal responsibility standpoint and my initial concern regarding any employees that might handle money.
Richard L.: Because this is with respect to the bookkeeper, the bookkeeper does not sign checks. He is an independent contractor. He comes in part time, does not cut, sign, or deposit checks. He comes in and assists with the books. I would like to defer to Tom.
Tom P.: Thank you Randy, I understand that as a concern. I think it’s an academic concern, because it makes sense in theory, however, I don’t think that’s what is taking place in our situation. We have talked about this at the WSO and if I recall, we have addicts in recovery that are working on our staff, whether that is full time or part-time. One of the things that is necessary for them to stay in recovery is for them to perform service. I don’t think it’s appropriate for us to deny or instruct the employees to what level of service they can be doing. I think it’s appropriate
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for us to be concerned when those issues are present and apparent, I believe you are speaking of our bookkeeper, who is the treasurer for an area. If that were the case, he could be potentially show as having written checks from the area, but if they are falling in the guidelines regarding cash handling procedures, he is not going to have that ability to. There are going to be two signatures required. At this level, as far as this company, the bookkeeper does not deposit the checks. All he does is reconcile our bank accounts. Checks are deposited by customer service and the DOO, so he does not have the ability to grab it and show it having been done. We did consider that.
Randy G.: I am not talking about any one individual or any position. I am talking about any employee of this facility has some access to this facility, unsupervised for some period of time. Somebody’s in the bathroom, somebody’s in the warehouse, wherever, give opportunities for, and I know this is worst case, but any employee that would be writing a check to Cocaine Anonymous or any service person…if having the opportunity to spend time here could potentially be in a position that the money would not end up where it was supposed to end up. Richard S.: While there is always the potential, and we should be mindful if there is and try and take good healthy corrective measures, I think it’s unfair being who we are to put conditions on service commitments of employees. I just do.
Randy G.: [unintelligible]
Tom P.: He said we have conditions on trustees and the WSOB.
Richard S.: We have an implied suggestion, we have some limitations, there are definitely things that have and do go on that some people might argue that’s actually being followed. We are a 12- step Fellowship. I think it’s a great conversation to have and to be cautious, but I wouldn’t want
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anyone telling me I shouldn’t go to a particular meeting or be of service in any particular way because I work at a particular job.
Elizabeth S.: I think, obviously, a lot of us here are in business and have experience of having to hire people and trust those people with money and different procedures in respect to that. I think where this makes me feel comfortable is that we have internal controls set in place. We have procedures set in place of how money is handled here at the WSO. I don’t think it’s about one person, you have customer service, the DOO, the treasurer, there are very specific people that can participate and be active in regard to the cash handling. Even more than that, there are only very specific people who can sign checks. The DOO cannot sign checks, however, the WSOT can. The WSOT cannot touch cash. The internal controls, of which there are many, keep it all stabilized. I think, and I agree with what everyone said, it’s important, whether we have people that work here or not, it’s always been, at least since I’ve been involved, staff members who have been involved in service in their spare time. One lady here was a delegate for many years, and an active and a very good delegate. Karen was the shipping person…we’ve had different people, that’s one of the things that was great about working for CA, we are not paying a tremendous amount of money, so they kind of love being here and love participating. There are internal controls, there is always an opportunity for theft in any business. We have a great DOO, we have a great supervisor of the office in Tom, we will just continue and we just have to continue building trust within here, within the levels of the office and the Board-to-Board. That, I think, will help build the Fellowship.
Kim S.: Is it not prudent to potentially consider some verbiage in the WSO policy book that addresses this due to the concerns of the WSBT?
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Tom P.: We’ve never had the concerns articulated to us. All we’ve had this is as an agenda item. We have never had something specific articulated to us that we should address. We’ve had service work. We discussed it at the board and concluded it. We think it’s okay for them to do service work.
Kim S.: Given the dialogue today…
Tom P.: This is a different dialogue.
Kim S.: Is it not under consideration by the WSO to potentially put in some verbiage in the policy to address this? Even if it’s so minimal as “employees report their service positions to the DOO,” something as simple as that? Can that be considered?
Tom P.: I was previously unaware of a concern, it was implied, now Randy has articulated that concern.
Kim S.: It has been articulated at the WSBT, I’m sorry that has not been passed on.
Barry J.: What I can expand on, at least now, just so you know, the bookkeeper we have in place right now, we did make an active decision at the WSO to have an on-site active bookkeeper. Previous to last year’s conference, our bookkeeper was a part-time, offsite bookkeeper who handled money, made deposits, reconciled books, and did so all offsite. At conference, our WSOB board made a conscious decision to remove that bookkeeper and put into place some guidelines for the new bookkeeper. The bookkeeper is on-site. He has limited cash-handling responsibilities. He is more directly supervised and responsible to both me the chair, and the DOO. Where I can understand your concerns possibly in the concerns in the past, the concerns of the bookkeeper today are more of input, orders and reconciling as opposed to cash and/or manipulation of funds.
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Randy G.: It’s not an embezzlement issue from the employee. It’s the perception of impropriety that potentially takes place and I’ve seen it happen. I saw it happen in our own area. If, God forbid, an employee in this organization ends up to be a treasurer in a group, area, or district and steals money from that group, area, or district, would he lose his job?
Tom P.: Oh yeah. He would no longer be qualified for the position. We look into the background for someone, anyone handling the money.
Randy G.: If he stole money from his group, area, or district. Rarely provable, rarely punishable, rarely.. .on what grounds?
Tom P.: That he is not qualified for the position, based on character.
Joy H.: California is an at-will state.
Randy G.: Because we believe he stole money? I roll through this type of scenario because of this perception of impropriety regarding an employee and a cash handler for the Fellowship that he serves. I’m not talking about not doing service work. The idea we are making this sound like he or she can’t do service work is what this is about.
Tom P.: That is certainly my impression. That is completely the impression I had.
Randy G.: At least my concern is an employee CAWSO, Inc. having any cash handling responsibilities at the group, district, or area level, I think that there is a potential for the perception of impropriety or a potential problem there. I don’t know, that’s just my own concern. It’s not about being able to stamp a check deposited and put it in his pocket, it gets ugly real quick.
Teresa N.: I have to reiterate what Tom said, I don’t believe we fully understood the concern, and now understanding the concern, I am empathetic and have my own concern in that I don’t know how legal it is for us to tell a paid employee what they may and may not do on their time
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off. I think we need would have to look at this more. I like Kim’s suggestion that maybe we could add something to the effect of the employee at least reporting to us what their service commitments are, which would then allow us to be aware and utilize our internal controls to the best possible. I have concerns regarding our legal liability.
Joy H.: I agree with Teresa, I don’t think we can do this legally.
Kim S.: Again, I think there could be a consideration of some verbiage in the policy regarding a communication and open dialogue regarding employee’s service commitments.
Linda F.: Would that not be more in the handbook, the policy of the job requirements or what the job description is, rather than what they do on the outside. I do not believe having an employee report their outside activities to me, I am the treasurer at my church, you’re talking about service work, maybe I do service work too. If I am the treasurer of my church and handle money, that doesn’t mean I can’t sign a check. I think we’ve already put into place good bookkeeping standards where…when I worked for Habitat, basically the person that cut the checks could not sign the checks, so therefore, because I was a signer, I could not cut a check. I think the fact we put in our manual or job description or how procedure goes would go in the procedure manual, not that they have to report what their outside service requirements are or what they do.
Tom P.: We could implement a policy of not hiring CA members.
Linda F.: That’s discrimination, then somebody could come back and say I didn’t get the job whether it be age, sex, or my political views. Correct me if I’m wrong, isn’t Michael a CPA by profession? Or a bookkeeper?
Tom P.: A bookkeeper.
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Linda F.: So we hired somebody who has his own company, is bonded. I don’t think we can ask people what they do in their outside activities. It has to be more our procedure so we check and balance so we don’t get ourselves into trouble.
Kim S.: I again, would ask that the WSOB consider putting some sort of verbiage in the procedural manual regarding those positions, of paid employees. Do you want this to remain on the agenda?
Randy G.: This can come off the agenda until the WSBT either encourages them ______ of our own, but it’s been brought up.
Linda F.: I think we really need to look at the legal aspects of what we can and cannot ask.
Randy G.: This is a non-profit organization that supports a 12-step fellowship. In being consistent with business responsibility, we potentially have employment policy that this is a non¬profit organization that supports a 12-step Fellowship. If you are a member of this 12-step Fellowship, we would encourage you not to engage in ____________ responsibilities while you are an employee here to minimize the perceived impropriety that could take place. That is not against any employment law. I would find it very difficult or hard to imagine that it would be.
Elizabeth S.: I think it’s always good to hear people’s concerns; I think that is how we reach solutions; so I appreciate that. I think I like the suggestion that we will look into it; however, we will talk to other Fellowships and see how it is handled in their particular employee guidelines. I believe that to be a sound solution and where we should go from here.
Kim S.: Thank you. Item number 8, French translations, HFC 2. To report to you, my understanding is that on Wednesday morning there is going to be a discussion.. .Elizabeth, will you please report on this?
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Elizabeth S.: We have made great progress with our French Canadian friends and we have had really healthy dialogue and are learning a lot along the way. One of the things we are learning is that we would like, and have plans to meet with both the delegates from the French Canadian Fellowship, Robert, their regional trustee, Russell, who is serving as the translation trustee along with Richard L., Tom, Linda, and I are having a breakfast meeting to give them direction of what we are looking for in a sense of what we need so we can move forward. That is, for them, as a Fellowship, to decide what they want to be called.
Kim S.: To advise you, we did have a motion at our quarterly meeting to ask the WSOB translation process to include the presentation of the final translation and the efforts be presented to the WSBT for their approval prior to any release of publication. That motion passed after a great deal of discussion. Richard Leve and Russell are aware of the situation and what the WSBT is foreseeing and they will be the liaisons to the WSOB regarding this, is that correct?
Elizabeth S.: Is that for all translations? Or for just the French Canadian.
Kim S.: All translations.
Elizabeth S.: To make the WSBT aware, we have the final approval of the Farsi translations at this point, that is something you will be getting.
Tom P.: We need to modify our guidelines.
Elizabeth S.: We can do that, I am just saying for right now, we have the Farsi, we will probably have the Dutch.
Kim S.: So that’s on your radar, I’m pointing at Russell and Richard L. Richard Schafer will email that to you and Teresa.
Richard S.: It has been sent.
Kim S.: Is there further discussion?
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Joy H.: Did we decide to give the office the direction to move forward with the French translation?
Unknown: We don’t know what words to use.
Kim S. No we did not. Our discussion included not having a clear indication of the proper verbiage.
Tom P.: Our last deal that has not been addressed is that we asked for your approval to print 400 copies of HFC 2, that’s where all of this came from.
Randy G.: Please, this isn’t meant to bog down the system at all, there is actually verbiage in the translation guidelines now that implies that not only CAWSO but the WSBT have approved these translations, when in fact there is nothing in the guidelines that actually sends them to us for approval. Robert brought that to our attention, that paragraph implies that in fact, the translations have been approved by the WSBT, where there is just nothing in that whole process that actually identifies a process to do that.
Tom P.: So what will you do with them?
Randy G.: In the way the motion was written, and maybe the verbiage you would choose to put in the guidelines, it’s that not only the final version but the efforts. So here’s this translations, these are the efforts we went through, we used a professional translator to do this, we identified specific issues regarding the steps and the traditions, verified that with the local community. That’s what the WSBT would have to have. We obviously don’t know all the languages, so we wouldn’t go word for word, it’s that the translation process and the effort of has been presented for approval.
Tom P.: I believe it violates the concepts in that when you delegate authority to the board, you are delegating some responsibilities and authority. This is one of those. This involves outside
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professionals. The board and the office are coordinating those, I’m thinking about the Farsi translation process. In order for Elizabeth, who heads up that process, there are probably 50 or more emails going back and forth. The translation policy begins with a local translation committee coming up with a translation for a piece. They ask for permission to do a translation, they get permission from the board, they provide their translation, along with now, the original source they used. We don’t know what it says, my guess is you don’t either. We provide a three bid process and go to a professional translator, they give us back what they think it should say. That’s provided back to the local translation committee. We’ve got four countries, I believe, right now, that we probably sent that back six months ago, they’ve not responded back to us. My point is, there is a lot of steps that take place, it feels to me from the WSOB standpoint that it’s pulling away the right of participation, right of decision, right of authority. Concept 10 is very clear of matching up responsibilities, so what it does, it turns the WSOB into a rubber stamper. Meaning we don’t have authority, we just do this work, rubber-stamp it and turn it off. What concept 10 essay says, and I am just speaking from experience, it is going to result in demoralized volunteers. Those are the words Bill used. Those words came from hard fought experience. We have made such progress on this in the past two years, it has been an incredible struggle to get translations done, and we really have. To be where we are right now, to have so many things in the pipeline getting ready to move, I am speaking out that this pulls away authority for sure. It even takes away our right of decision.
Bob C.: Randy answered part of what my question was, that someone read in the guidelines that these things need trustee approval. I can appreciate you wanting to be part of the approval, otherwise you’re not doing your job according to the description. I had the same question Tom did. It seems to me, and I can appreciate you further explaining it is to make sure that we went
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through these right steps, because that would have to be the only thing you could approve. You couldn’t read the stuff. My only concern is that it doesn’t get bogged down between two trustee meetings because it’s pretty important, as everybody knows. Translations, e need to get them the heck out the door, okay? So if we are going to put in this layer pursuant to already established guidelines that need trustee approval, I honor and recognize that. I urge the trustees to expedite that process and turn it around in a matter of a telephone conference, days, a week, whatever, so it doesn’t get bogged down because it certainly cannot question the quality of the work, it is questioning the process if I understood the description.
Kim S.: I think this evolved out of the fact that some of our traditions and steps are not being translated exactly as they are in English versus a foreign language and our charter basically states that there cannot be any changes in the 12 steps, traditions, or concepts without a 2/3 majority of all of the meetings. With that, my understanding of the discussion at the WSBT meeting is somewhere along the line that happened and our steps and traditions were not translated correctly. I think more than the actual final translation, yes you’re right, there are not any of us in this room that could probably read any of that except maybe Russell, and maybe, depending on the language, Richard Schafer. Communication of the effort that is going into it and that if a discrepancy in the word cocaine translating to the word addict in a foreign language as opposed to cocaine actually changes the concept of those steps, traditions, and concepts. We are looking for more communication, and if the efforts are actually indicating to us that our translations are exactly as they should be, and if there is a discrepancy. Then we are looking to our vendor to indicate that—oh, by the way, the word cocaine in French translates to—addict.
Tom P.: The steps and traditions have always been properly translated. I know there was a concern that we, there was no other way to conjugate the verbs…
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Unknown: Not true.
Elizabeth S.: So this is the deal. I have no problem with whatever you all decide to do and obviously will take direction from that. You have no idea how much work this has been to try and get all this done. I Skype with Russell once a week, I am constantly emailing Charlotte from Kerns, copying Tom and Linda; we have made such great progress. I have no problem including the WSBT on any of that. My suggestion as a former WSBT member is that there are different committees within the WSBT structure, like the negotiation committee, etc. It might be a good idea for you to create a smaller committee so we don’t have to wait on everyone. I think the other thing I have learned. English is the only language I speak. I have learned much about language in talking to Kern and Charlotte. Not everything is going to be black and white when it comes to language. One conversation I had this weekend, the only international language is sign language. Everything else will have different conjugations and ways of wording; some languages come from passion, Italian, Spanish, and Portuguese. Other languages are more dramatic; there are many different ways. Some languages do speak in the we version. I think Russell, we have made great progress, I am very comfortable with that, and I am comfortable with including other people in this process, one thing I will say, and I agree with Tom, it is important not to feel micromanaged in this particular area. We have heard the conference for the last two years shout out “what’s going on with translations?” and we made a huge effort, and we have something to show them. It is also important that you allow the WSOB to do its work. And the WSOB is in charge of publications. Once the conference has given us charge, we take those publications and do what we are supposed to do with them, I believe, followed the translation procedures, even more so Russell has asked if he was overstepping, and I responded that no, he was not, I need his support and help as a liaison. We have incorporated local translation committees and done
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amazing work. I want to make sure we don’t get bogged down. I will not be here forever, and I hope Cocaine Anonymous will, and keep growing and going into all of these other languages. It’s important we come to a middle ground where the scales seem balanced.
Richard S.: I have really heard and felt Tom’s immediate concern and opinion. I think that the way this was worded, and I supported it, to ask the WSOB translation process to include the presentation of the final translation. That’s where I believe there was no micromanagement, it is the final translation and the efforts to be presented so that we knew it went to the outside source to be presented to the WSBT for approval prior to any release, and all that would do was make sure that, as it said in the guidelines, once it’s released, it says WSBT approved. Just to make sure it was WSBT approved. That was the reason for this motion. It wasn’t to micro-manage, get in the middle, we don’t have the time, the manpower, the resources, you guys are doing a tremendous amount and we should be helping you at every effort we can and we are not looking, I am not looking and I don’t know any member in this discussion that came up, we are not looking to jump in. This is absolutely a supportive effort and we just wanted to follow along with what we’re acknowledging, that it’s approved. I wanted to express that, I could tell by both of your reactions that it did not feel that way, I hear from Russell how much work you guys are doing on the translations, it’s tremendous; I will acknowledge that here, for the record. That work is producing growth for our Fellowship. This was not to micromanage in anyway or interfere; it was to hopefully be certain that if it was WSBT approved, that we saw it.
Teresa N.: Without going into too much detail, from what I understand, the concerns are
regarding the translation of HFC 2 into French. I want the WSBT to feel comfortable that
our translation process. That was followed in the pamphlets this year has proven to be a
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successful process and we have gotten several pamphlets translated. That process was not applied to the book. That is why we are having problems. We have discussed this on our board, moving forward we want to make sure that we use the process that is working and apply it to any other book translations we do in the future. Meanwhile, we are having to backtrack and fix the issues that have arisen as a result of this translation having happened pretty much out of our hands. I will add, I was told when I was given that translation that it had been through the trustees and approved as well by the trustees. That is the only reason we moved forward with trying to push it forward to print.
Joy H.: Here’s the history of the French translation. The 12 steps and 12 traditions were
translated in 1985 when CA opened its first meeting in Quebec. The way the translation
was done was in using the AA French version, which was translated in 1939. The wording
specific to CA was changed; so today we are using the same 12 steps and 12 traditions as
they were used at that time. This is from Yves. Regarding the 12 steps, AA did a review of
them in French when they did publish their 4th Edition of the Big Book in French in 2003,
reason being they wanted to have a more international French flavor. Since that time, there is still a lot of controversy over the translation and there are still a lot of AA meetings
around here that are not using this new set, but rather still using the 1939 translation.
Sometime is resembled the type of discussions between American English and UK English.
In around the end of 2003 we received a request from one of our local members to change
steps to match the AA changes. At that point, because it was involving the 12 steps, and
since I was the area delegate, I did send a request to CAWS with the actual changes made by AA asking direction as to the validity of the request and if ok, how to proceed on this.
Unfortunately, this went nowhere because we never received any answer from the office,
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and also probably because of the issue still ongoing in AA’s meeting, the issue was closed at the area. Around the end of 2010, some members brought back this issue to us and I did
discuss this. We (our trustee, Robert) at our area convention in January of this year with
the same questions regarding this request and he was to bring this to the board of trustees.
We are still waiting on this one. The pamphlets translation was done from the inception of
CA in Quebec in 1986 and for a few years after that there was also a translation committee
created to translate our CA book around 92-93 and since finishing this project there has not been any serious translation done. That is what Yves sent to me. He sent it to Cynthia,
Robert, Russell, and Kim as well as others. There is more to it; that is the basic history of it.
Randy G.: This is about checks and balances. Elizabeth is kicking ass and taking names and
there will be someone that takes her place, and there will be someone that takes their
place, whether they kick ass and take names or not, it’s just a check and a balance that the
end result and the effort that was asked for by that was asked for by the board of trustees is
when we go tell them that the translations materials was conference approved, that’s the
absolute implication, this is conference approved material. I would like to know that future
board of trustees said yes. Not me, not this board, a future board of trustees said yes, we’ve
done another translation and it’s conference approved and it’s been through the ringer.
Tom P.: I have a question. We have had __________, said steps and traditions. When I said something earlier you guys said no it was wrong and they said they said it was okay. I am just curious because I’ve never heard, I understand the issue of cocaine addicts, but in the wording of the steps where it says new, in Spanish it says the same thing, because that’s how they conjugate the verb, because they cannot put to make up there, because the verb would be something incorrect, because it says made a searching and fearless moral…the
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implication, so they conjugate it to be possessive, with no changes to it. If you guys have something different, is there something else? The process would be this. We say, “here is what Kern says.” They give it back to the local translation committee, the only issue Kern came back with is the issue of cocaine addict, but they didn’t change any of the, what one or two changes. In French or in Spanish.
Unknown: It is about singleness of purpose.
Tom P.: That’s our breakfast on Wednesday, that issue, but is there more about, is there another way to translate the steps?
Russell S.: Is there another way to translate the steps? In general? I am aware the Dutch use the…
Tom P.: I am not aware of how the Dutch conjugate verbs.
Elizabeth S.: In your responsibilities of the WSBT subcommittees, and there is an International Structure and Development section, maybe those people that sit on the International Structure and Development subcommittee can sit on the translation
committee, and the new ___________ liaison would be _______________ . If anyone has a better solution, I am happy to hear about it. Whoever would like to be on that committee, can you let me know, we will get you signed up. Richard and Russell. Can we get them signed up to the Yahoo group?
Tom P.: I just grabbed a Spanish pamphlet, for example, step 2, the translation is llagamos, which means “we came” the other way it is put is “to came” llagar or “I came” llago or llagas, “you came.” The problem is the English is incorrect grammatically. It is a fragmented sentence, came to believe. They cannot translate fragmented sentences properly.
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Richard S.: The Spanish from Spain translates differently and more properly and there is a different dialect.
Tom P.: The French add nous to the beginning. _________ (Spanish word), that means
we made a decision. That’s in the third step. Fourth step is __________(Spanish word),
we made. I am concerned that we do not have that issue resolved. Kern, in their translation, they were pretty clear, that’s the proper translation.
Richard S.: What I’ve heard, the information Russell passed along, other members stated there is a way to translate into French without using ______________.
Tom P.: It did not come from our professional translator, so we would appreciate that information.
Richard S.: My suggestion to Russell to bring to translations, I asked him to try to have it translated in a French-Canadian region and see what they come up with rather than the English that uses their satellite office or people who speak French. That’s why I’ll give you my contact on this. I know that was my input and feeling. If you’re getting feedback from other members of the Fellowship that it is wrong. Other French-speaking people say it is wrong so I say we do one more level of research so we can give them…
Tom P.: At the board level, we haven’t received any input other than that, all we’ve gotten is a professional translator who did it according to, who said that is how we would translate it.
Richard S.: I also believe this is digressing into micromanaging of translations at this
meeting other than just communicating and letting you guys do your work.
Robert L.: The reason I’ve kept this French HFC 2 translation on the ongoing agenda is this has been since I’ve been on the board. I realize there are problems, but you know what?
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HFC 2, the French Canadian folks, we are not receiving 7th tradition donation from the
Quebec region much and they have been big supporters of us. I’ve been promised, then
something happens, I’ve gone to ________ a number of times, and told we’re all set, it’s
going to happen, then something else comes up. I appreciate the work that’s being done, I
don’t want to say anything to them. That’s my frustration, as a regional trustee, that we’ve
said we’ve been this close or it goes back to a number of people at the office. I believe in the _________. I believe that French Canadian is not the French that’s spoken in Paris.
My mother-in-law speaks French Canadian to me and I don’t understand a word, but they
are a passionate people and they want as many resources as they can have. They are willing to work with us to make it happen. No one person speaks for the French Canadian
fellowship as a whole, so we have to be careful there as well. I want to say that I appreciate
the work that is being done, but we need to continue and we need to put this to bed and I
am hoping by the time I rotate off as a trustee we can give them HFC 2 in French.
Elizabeth S.: I think today we are further the solution to this than we have been. I believe
the conversation we had with Yves was a very important conversation and I think we asked
him to specifically come up with a guideline of how he wanted to move forward, which I
have. I think everyone who was part of that conversation has the guideline as well. I think
the processes of where we go from here is really to open up communication, that is why we
are having that meeting with Gerald and Valerie, to get them in the loop and understanding where we are and what we need from them, a decision regarding the local translation committee in conjunction with thinking of not only our French Canadian speaking friends, but also our friends from France, Monaco, from French Polynesia, wherever French is spoken. We are not going to have different versions of the French. I think we are in a great
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place right now. I said this on the phone, my eye is on the ball, I am going to move this ball along as much as I can within the group conscience and trying to be an advocate and keep it alive. Russell, I don’t know that I was aware there is another way to translate; I do not believe we have ever talked about that. That is important and good information to know other ways…
Russell S.: A lot of this has come through in recent days for me.
Elizabeth S.: I did not get anything from Yves in the last couple of days.
Joy H.: I just sent it to you; I think he just sent it to me.
Elizabeth S.: I think all of this is really important information so we can move forward in trying to…I think the most important think as the two boards that sit here and talk about the future of translations, whether it is the international subcommittee or the ad hoc committee of the WSOB, this is our future. This is really important information, maybe even more important than anything else at this time, in my opinion. It is how we will continue to grow and carry the message, I think the fact that we are communicating and moving forward, the answers are not solely with Yves, Gerald and Valerie, they are in the group conscience somewhere in there. Robert, it might take a little bit of time. First the local translation committee was 3-4 people, because they are just developing as a country and just now holding meetings, our French Canadian friends have been there for 25 plus years. It is important to give them an opportunity to decide what they want to be called. I don’t want someone to tell me I have to say I’m this way when I feel like I’m something else. I did not know about that, I think if there is any information anyone has about translations, it needs to be brought forward, until we have all of the information needed, we cannot
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adequately communicate with the Fellowship, nor can we make good, clear, conscious decisions.
Richard L.: When I gave this report after Elizabeth sent it to me, and went to our online
meeting and said everything is correct and _______ shut me down and told me it’s still
says cocaine on there, and I said the we part. Then I took the AA 12 steps and Googled the English to French, it didn’t have, one time it did it all with nous on everything, and another time it did not come on all of them. Sometimes it was singular. I realized that, Richard and I had a conversation, I also realized I would not want somebody representing me except for me. That’s why when we had our board meeting, I thought let the French decide what the French decide what they want to go with, how they want it, let them have a group conscience and choose it, just like the Farsi’s do, in Iran, when they send it to us, we bring back what it is and we send it to them and then they agree or disagree on it. That’s why its kind of important, if you just have the one person or two people saying we’re going to represent the whole French, of course you’re not going to make a lot of people happy, maybe you’ve got to take it back to their area and let them have a group conscience, or their region.
Bob C.: The whole idea that I believe AA has probably gone through this, we versus…cause
we took that principle 2/3 of the meetings from Alcoholics Anonymous, we didn’t come up
with that originally. So if it’s good enough for AA it’s good enough for us in terms of
translations in regard to actually changing the steps or not changing the steps. Clearly we
need uniformity and we need professionalism, because we are always going to get
colloquiums, we are always going to get some people that are going to say we can say it that way that are in the vast minority, but I do think there is maybe a major difference between
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French Canadian and French, and I think our main Fellowship is in in French Canadian not France and I think by default we go to French Canadian we need to tell the translators is this satisfactory French Canadian or do they have idioms that they need to be changed to this. I think one legitimate point I hear that gets my attention, we play to our audience, that’s what we do, and our audience is French Canadian, not France. If it’s that much of a difference, we can always change it later and we can label it French Canadian and people can understand.
Teresa N.: I just read the email Joy forwarded. It is not saying you can translate “we
admitted we were” any differently. It’s not contradicting what said. It’s only
addressing the word “addict.”
Kim S.: Clearly, this is a hot topic and everyone is very passionate about it, to break down the motion that passed at the WSBT, as I view it, an opportunity for cooperation between the two board moving forward on translations, I think that’s really what the spirit of what that motion is. If I didn’t make that clear, I was trying to give some history. The spirit of that motion was to have cooperation between the two boards, which is in our translation process, but really adhering to it. Is there any more discussion? Clearly, this will remain on the agenda. I wish you all much luck! Thank you for all the work that has been done on the WSO on the translation committee, and the local members who have been assisting as well. Next on the agenda is European fulfillment facility, item number 9. Russell.
Russell S.: Thank you Linda, for forwarding me the information is a work in progress as we move forward I will keep you up to speed with it.
Kim S.: There was a lot of discussion regarding this at our board and again, a hot topic we
are all very excited and passionate about, this will continue to be addressed. Thank you
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Russell. Item number 10, correspondence that came to the WSBT and our response. Joy for the record can you please read the correspondence from Vickie?
Joy H.: PayPal message. Are you planning anytime soon to make PayPal an option for payment for online literature orders? We could then pay immediately through our district checking account instead of having to mail a check. I understand you do have a PayPal account you are currently using for international transactions, just wondering when this might be available for us in the U.S. Response: Dear Vickie: Thank you very much for your very much for your correspondence and forward thinking inquiry. First we want you to know that we appreciate your district making regular purchases of CA literature via the online order method. Purchases such as this from our World Service Office continue to extend and pursue our primary purpose, to help the addict who still suffers. Working together, the World Service Office and the World Service Board of Trustees continually look for avenues to handle our finances in the most streamlined and efficient manner possible. Means of electronic funds, such as PayPal can be considered. We meet with the World Service Office Board on a quarterly basis and will pursue the concept and request feedback from them as to the experience regarding the use of PayPal international to date and as to whether or not it is a useful tool to use domestically. Sincerely, WSBT 2011.
Kim S.: Thanks Joy. Basically, that’s on this agenda to bring to your agenda as an item I believe can be pursued.
Barry J.: We take PayPal. If an area wants to purchase something via PayPal, it gets to us quickly, fees are low, it’s safe, and we just created an electronic fund transfer internal form to extend to other groups to use. There is a space for reason for purchase, void, and signatures, and guideline use.
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Kim S.: Might you add that to your report?
Barry J.: I was going to bring it up to the finance committee and I just showed it to Joy to find out her input on how, do I bring it to the Conference, do I bring it to her?
Kim S.: We can add it.
Tom P.: The only concern would be from an area, they may want to adopt the same thing, there were some problems with the treasurer in the UK with claiming the transfers were being made when they were not. An area may want to adopt a two-signature policy. Maybe the finance committee would need to expand their guidelines.
Randy G.: Is it possible to put it on the website?
Barry J.: The question I would have, is it endorsement?
Kim S.: We have a 6th tradition disclaimer.
Richard S.: I want to say we should be mindful of affiliation, so when we discuss it, sitting on the IT committee, one way we phrased things, instead of saying we take PayPal is we accept online forms of payment, and more simply, even immediately, could be added, please contact the office directly for other forms of payment including electronic, including the required PayPal electronic logo. It’s an avenue and an option. I want us to be mindful of the affiliation and endorsement. Not that it can’t be worked around, we use Adobe, and we use the disclaimer for Adobe specific, but electronic forms of payment is a narrower scope than a pdf file.
Russell S.: I think its great how we’re looking at how we can engage with this technology,
it’s great to see this form being brought for internal use. My concern is one that however
carefully we introduce it to the Fellowship that we accept PayPal, we are going to be seeing, or whatever electronic payment, we are going to be encouraging our members to operating
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outside of clear guidelines _________ signatures and things like that and I sort of have
a little niggle about all that. I see how that can work. I come from an area that has been fleeced by members who have said yes this is a safe way to move money; we give the treasurer authority to move it. I am concerned that what could be, what is a healthy way to have a member register for a convention or buy books or literature for himself is being promoted as a usable tool for himself as we currently stand for committee. That is my only concern around this.
Bob C.: I am concerned as well Russell, the affiliation can be taken care of the same way as Adobe, and I would really encourage if we are going to do this I think, with all due respect to a lot of people in the Fellowship, it’s not a good communication to say electronic transfer, I think they need to see Visa, MasterCard, PayPal, I think they really do. I think it’s just going to gloss over a lot of people that they won’t get the convenience.
Kim S.: As I stated before, we do have the 6th tradition disclaimer.
Tom P.: Might I offer, the breakdown in that process did not occur in the transfer using PayPal or any electronic transfer form of payment, the breakdown occurred in putting the money into that member’s account. It wasn’t at the level of this; it had to do with that. At this level, it requires two signatures. That’s where the breakdown occurred.
Russell S.: I understand that, but why, and I don’t want to blame anybody, what an area heard was that the World Service Office, and I’m not saying this is what was said, what they heard was that the World Service Office said it’s fine to use PayPal, so let’s let our treasurer use PayPal.
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Tom P.: It’s also fine for use to accept checks, and take credit card payments. It doesn’t matter; their area reimburses a member’s credit card, and that member. The reimbursement is the breakdown.
Russell S.: But it doesn’t talk about those sort of practices within our financial guidelines. It doesn’t mention anything in our financial guidelines about getting a member to pay on his credit card and reimbursing him.
Elizabeth S.: This sounds like a referral to Finance.
Kim S.: Mr. Leve, anything else?
Richard L.: Originally, all that money comes from the basket being passed and given to that treasurer so it starts right there and then that treasurer has that money so whether they put it into the bank and steal or put it in their front pocket and it gets stolen, that’s where it’s all starting, with whoever’s got the money. If we keep saying well, they put it in the checking account and they PayPal it or they MasterCard it or whatever it is, it’s the person who had the commitment, it’s the person who had the money. Those things kind of happen. Getting back to what Tom was talking about, it isn’t how it got shipped or didn’t get shipped, it was the person who had the position and had the money. That happened at the meeting level and that person who had that position, that’s a whole different thing. If we can get it out of their hands fast enough and sent to the World Service Office, that’s fine, if you got two people, I don’t know if that makes it any better, but it gets passed around, somebody has the money, somebody counts the money, somebody puts it in their pocket and goes home at night, that is where something happens.
Kim S.: Thank you Richard. Anything else? New business. Item number 1. Audits. Richard Schafer.
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Richard S.: I reported to the WSBT, thank you very much Tom, thank you for your communications Elizabeth. Joy, Elizabeth and I have remained in communication, and Tom has gotten us three bids, two very nice one, and we have a true starting points for the proposal of an audit for the office and that will be brought up at long-term planning, it’s actually something we can move on. It’s of vital importance that the office is of interest and supporting this, because if you are not, then we just have to push it off further on long-term planning. It is not my desire; that is why I have taken the action the last couple of years to get something going, it is what Elizabeth first brought me into long-term planning to discuss 6-7 years ago? I am dedicated to getting the information to allowing the Fellowship to be responsible so we can be accountable. I believe this is necessary. If anyone wants to make sure I am looking at or going toward…
Tom P.: I only thought one was good, one said $12,000, one said $15,000, the other one is $3,500, I would like to qualify him. I would like to do some due diligence regarding him. He is a CPA, so he may just be a one-man shop or something.
Richard S.: I thought two of them were good because of the range and spread because of what they were offering. One appeared to be expensive and the other appeared to be not comprehensive, maybe that’s our start.
Tom P.: An audit is defined, and very clearly.
Richard S.: That is our starting point, and I believe we need to start, to be accountable and responsible.
Tom P.: Is this something you would present to the Finance Committee?
Richard S.: Yes.
Elizabeth S.: To put into the budget. 2012-2013?
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Richard S.: Yes.
Joy H.: I am wondering if we need to disqualify one because they already do our financial statements?
Tom P.: They only do a compilation; they do our tax returns. They are independent.
Richard S.: How are they delivered the information?
Tom P.: They are delivered the information electronically.
Richard S.: Okay.
Kim S.: The WSBT has not addressed any of these items at our meeting as of yet.
Barry J.: For time frame purposes, using 2015 for a full audit, for a five year basis, is that how we want to do them? You are talking about long-term planning, thinking along those lines…since we’ve never had one, have them every 3 years?
Richard S.: Include Barry in the e-mail loop please Joy. The audit standard is an initial audit, then every three years. The bids are including that standard. These are proper bids.
Kim S.: Item number 2, review guidelines regarding non-addict trustee.
Richard S.: Coming out of long-term planning, my belief is that a non-addict trustee would bring a healthy perspective to our board and that it is something we should try and budget for, have a slot open for, and some of the great questions that came up at long-term planning for those of you who were not there were how do we choose one? The idea of clergy, where would they be from?
Tom P.: Clergy or medicine.
Richard S.: Those are some of the ideas and thoughts I would like to bring to finance the ability and idea to open up a budget for a non-addict trustee so we have that outside
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perspective; we have that position for the board. It is not filled. It is not suspended, it is simply vacant.
Linda F.: Wouldn’t Drug Court something we could add to that?
Richard S.: A judge?
Linda F.: Would you be interested in adding something like that? Getting more information? Richard S.: I hadn’t thought about that, those communications, it’ a good idea, thank you. Kim S.: This will remain on the agenda. Item number 3, review of the TAL 2 budget. The WSBT has not yet had an opportunity to review these items, so I can blanket these and leave them on the agenda following input from our meeting and this can be discussed at the next quarterly.
Richard S.: I would like to hear thoughts on these items, most of the WSBT knows my thought on this, I can either express those thoughts or save them, I would like to hear from everybody, what they think about reactivating the TAL 2 position, as it is currently suspended.
Elizabeth S.: I think, of course, in a perfect world, we would have a DRPD, that person would have their own secretary so that person would not have to share with the DOO, I would love to have the TAL and also love to have a non-addict trustee. Until we are in a better financial position through the 7th tradition I think, in my opinion, and this is just me alone, I would tend to lean toward the fiscally responsible side, which would mean to tighten our belts and hold off.
Kim S.: So we will leave that on our agenda for future review. We have a copyright letter submitted by Kenny; I know this has been distributed. Kenny, if you want to address how
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you are working with Bob on that or plan to work with Bob on that. This will remain on the agenda for the next Board-to-Board.
Bob C.: These things are very timely so I am going to get on this to get them some finalized copies, you trustees may want to be sending out much sooner than the next board meeting. You cannot be sitting out on these violations very long. I can appreciate that. I will be getting this back to Kenny and he will get it to you.
Richard S.: It is my understanding historically that any letter like that would come out of the office and not from the trustee, is that not accurate
Tom P.: Because CAWS, Inc. is the owner of those marks; there is a license between CAWS and CAWSO that allows CAWSO to use and also to defend them. The license grants CAWSO to issue correspondence.
Richard S.: Communications coming out of the office.
Kim S.: Thanks everyone. Number 5, CAWS 2012, Reg Online issue, I believe this has been resolved, I will ask Russell to address this.
Russell S.: This was resolved within a couple of minutes of the office being contacted. John handled it.
Linda F.: It was all John.
Kenny W.: The big problem was solved initially; I did follow up with some emails behind that. There were some logos at the bottom of the pages. I expressed my concern with that. I also gave some solutions to have them, to have it removed or go ahead and have the disclaimers put up, but that seems to me to be a paid site of some kind, but it’s still advertising. You removed the link for Facebook, but if you scroll down to the bottom, there are some links still.
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Randy G.: We worked with Reg Online for 2011 and the disclaimer is actually part of their standard page, or it was for the 2011 site.
Richard S.: When we started using Reg Online, we could strip everything off the page, Reg Online has grown and the corporation that took them over, in the terms and conditions of utilizing Reg Online, those ownership links at the bottom of the page for their hosting are a requirement, you are agreeing by using their service. That’s something that’s evolved over the last three years and those links at the bottom are now a part of using their service.
Kenny W.: Are we paying Reg Online to use their services?
Richard S.: Yes, a commission.
Kenny W.: I normally see these kind of links on free pages.
Richard S.: Correct. However these are part of their terms and conditions for utilizing their commission-based site. We used to be able to strip them off, now we cannot because it’s part of using their service. Now we use the 6th tradition disclaimer to cover us the best we can.
Kim S.: My understanding is that this has been resolved and we can remove it from the agenda. Item number 6, ratification of the WSOB. We haven’t done that yet, my apologies. The interviews for the chair are tomorrow morning for the chair, I will inform Tom. Item number 8, financials. Joy.
Joy H.: I can discuss this with Barry, Joy and Tom. Most of it is posting information. There are still a few issues, however everything is much cleaner. We can remove this from the agenda.
Kim S.: Is there any other new business?
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Linda F.: Everybody have $15 on Tuesday, you will be able to buy this beautiful lanyard and your notebook on a flash drive. Only $15.
Kim S.: I would like to thank you for going through the last four years with me, I hope moving forward there is a lot of cooperation between these two boards and it has been a pleasure working with all of you, specifically speaking to the WSOB, doing what you do.
Kenny W.: I would like to give Kim a hand.
Elizabeth S.: I think we should also give Tom a hand.
Randy G.: I make a motion to adjourn.
Joy H.: Second.
Kim S.: There is a motion to adjourn, and it has been seconded. Is there any discussion? Thanks everyone.
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