CA WORLD SERVICE BOARD OF TRUSTEES REGULAR QUARTERLY
MEETING MINUTES
December 2 – 4, 2011
FINAL
Since this report is a confidential C.A. document for members only, it may contain
members’ full names. This usage to facilitate communication within the fellowship
was approved by the 1990 World Service Conference. Such confidential use does not,
of course, violate in any way our Tradition on anonymity in public communications
media (press, radio, TV, etc).
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Randy G.: Welcome to the WSBT quarterly meeting, December 2011. We are going to be starting at 7:04, Friday night, December 2nd. We are going to go offline for personal sharing and be back shortly. We are back online, it is 8:31 Friday night; we have completed personal sharing. Thank you all. I would like to open this meeting with a moment of silence, followed by the Serenity Prayer. God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
Randy Groen, Southwest Regional Trustee, WSBT Chair.
Joy Hutcheson, Pacific South Regional Trustee, WSBT Vice-Chair.
Peter DeRafaelle, World Service Trustee.
Richard Leve, World Service Office Trustee.
Kenny Williams, Atlantic South Regional Trustee.
Terry Marsden, Pacific North Regional Trustee.
Brian Tenenbaum, Midwest Regional Trustee.
Richard Schafer, Trustee at Large.
Russell Sedman, European Regional Trustee, WSBT Secretary.
Randy G.: Special note, Robert Lyle, Atlantic North Regional Trustee did give us formal notification that he was not going to be able to attend the quarterly because of some business affairs that were not foreseen, we wish him well and he will be missed. May I get a volunteer to read the 12 Traditions?
Brian T.:
1. Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon C.A. unity.
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2. For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority — a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.
3. The only requirement for C.A. membership is a desire to stop using cocaine and all other mind-altering substances.
4. Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or C.A. as a whole.
5. Each group has but one primary purpose — to carry its message to the addict who still suffers.
6. A C.A. group ought never endorse, finance, or lend the C.A. name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property and prestige divert us from our primary purpose.
7. Every C.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.
8. Cocaine Anonymous should remain forever nonprofessional, but our service centers may employ special workers.
9. C.A., as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve.
10. Cocaine Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the C.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.
11. Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, television and films.
12. Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.
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Randy G.: Thanks Brian. Traditions, we are taking them one at a time through our quarterlies. This quarter’s is the long form of tradition 6, we will try to limit discussion. Can I get a volunteer to read the long form of tradition 6?
Brian T.: Tradition 6, long form. Problems of money, property and authority may easily divert us from our primary spiritual aim. We think, therefore, that any considerable property of genuine use to CA should be separately incorporated and managed, thus dividing the material mind from the spiritual. A CA group, as such, should never go into business. Secondary aids to CA such as clubs or hospitals which require much property or administration ought to be incorporated and so set apart that if necessary, they can be freely discarded by the groups. Hence such facilities ought not use the CA name. Their management should be the sole responsibility of those people who financial support them. For clubs, CA managers are usually preferred, but hospitals as well as other places of recuperation ought to be well outside of CA and medically supervised. While a CA group may cooperate with anyone, such cooperation ought never go so far as affiliation or endorsement, actual or implied. A CA can combine itself to no one.
Randy G.: Thanks.
Kenny W.: I have to be a board member of a place in Memphis, in my hometown, it’s a recovery house called Freedom Road. That particular place hosts about 40 meetings a week, that one unit. It’s been that way for years. People that aren’t familiar with the inner workings of that place, they don’t realize that the groups that meet there pay rent to meet there, and for some strange reason they believe that the group they attend is solely associated with that building, and they’re not. There are several different Fellowships that meet there too, mind you. There are meetings that start at 7:00 in the morning, noon, 7:00
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at night and sometimes 10:00 at night. This is on an ongoing basis. One of the groups, we were at a meeting, my Surrender CA meeting, and some of the members in the group decided that they wanted this particular unit building to start taking certain actions toward certain things that they felt, like how to spend the money that they’re paying their rent for toward. It started to get ugly. A lot of infighting took place in the group because one side of the group felt like they needed to do this with their money and the other side felt like they wanted…and say well, since we meet here we have a lot of say so. And what happened was the spiritual aspect of that particular group started to disintegrate. The meetings, when you go to a meeting, after a week or two, you could feel the tension in the meetings, because when somebody shared, you could hear another, cross-talking type situations, cause you were on that side, and I don’t agree with you. The next group meeting, this particular tradition came up. It wasn’t by accident; I just want to say that. It was made abundantly clear that this group, no matter how they felt about that particular place, had no say so in how that particular place ran their business. That was a humbling experience, some of the information, to some of the people in that group. Finally, after a lot of discussion back and forth, in the end, the members that had the opposition agreed that yeah, that is breaking up our group because we are talking about property here. I’m talking about the aspect of money and property and how it diverts and can drive a wedge between what our purpose is here and our purpose is to carry the message to the next addict that is still suffering so if we’ve got all of this other stuff going on, we can’t focus on what we’re really there for. So, when that came up, it took about six weeks of literal hell, but it was worth it to get the information to the people. They had to go through what they had to go through in order for them to see the light of how that was affecting the group and so research was done by some
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elder members who said well, let’s give them the information not as a rule, and say here, read for yourself, here’s some historical, even from AA, here’s how this came into play. Without going into all of that. Should shoemakers stick to their task? They tried running groups and holding bank accounts, it just doesn’t work, it takes away from what your essence and your purpose is. I’m sharing that from experience, because I was caught in the middle of it and I really didn’t know what to do, I just didn’t like the way it felt. I’ve been around the group ever since day one, and was faced with something and just didn’t know what to and it was suggested that we get into the traditions. Now that works. For the people that it didn’t work for obviously they had ulterior motives and they were trying to push their will upon the group, when you remove that aspect from it, then we’re right back to where we’re supposed to be and that’s carrying the message of Cocaine Anonymous to the person that still suffers, the person that still needs it. That’s my two cents.
Richard L.: Thanks Kenny. In the early days of CA in LA, 90% of all the meetings were held in hospitals, and all the meetings were named after those hospitals. The reasons why the hospitals were giving them to us, they had treatment centers in them. They were telling the clients we have CA meetings at these hospitals, when actually Cocaine Anonymous was having meetings at the hospitals, the hospitals weren’t having Cocaine Anonymous meetings. That’s when it got brought to the conference floor and we were made aware of it and we were told we had to start naming our meetings. We no longer named our meetings after facilities. Eventually things started moving over in the 90’s when the facilities weren’t making money anymore, or getting paid by insurance companies, we had to start moving to institutions or churches. Sometimes meetings were formerly known as the hospital meeting, now it’s known as something else. That was it, because of this particular tradition
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they had to change it because we are not allied with any sect, denomination, our outside enterprise.
Randy G.: Thank you very much. Chair’s opening remarks. The agenda has a list of standing markers, old business not yet complete or in some form being addressed from a position of new business. Some correspondence in the referrals were assigned to the individuals from the board, we can get to those and try to work on those this weekend. As a matter of new business we have the assistant secretary election we will participate in. Issues regarding our transcriber in an item of new business regarding our minutes and the recordings to be discussed as well. Is there any other new business that needs to be in new business that needs to be on the agenda? The Board-to-Board is also a carryover of traditional markers and topics that were left either incomplete or important enough to be required to be addressed on a quarterly basis between the boards. There is an item of new business there also regarding the transcription costs and requirements of the conference quarterlies and board to board meetings to be transcribed. Can anyone think of anything from a Board-to- Board standpoint to add? Moving onto reports.
Terry M.: Motion to approve WSBT Officer reports, including Chair, Vice-Chair and Secretary.
Joy H.: Second.
Randy G.: Motion to approve WSBT Officer reports; to include Chair, Vice-Chair and Secretary, made to Terry, seconded by Joy. All those in favor? Opposed. Motion passes.
Joy H.: Motion to approve WSBT Trustee reports; inclusive of Atlantic North Regional Trustee, Atlantic South Regional Trustee, Midwest Regional Trustee, Pacific North Regional
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Trustee, Pacific South Regional Trustee, European Regional Trustee, Trustee at Large, World Service Trustee, and World Service Office Trustee.
Peter D.: Second.
Randy G.: Motion by Joy to approve WSBT Trustee reports; inclusive of Atlantic North Regional Trustee, Atlantic South Regional Trustee, Midwest Regional Trustee, Pacific North Regional Trustee, Pacific South Regional Trustee, European Regional Trustee, Trustee at Large, World Service Trustee, and World Service Office Trustee, second by
Peter. All in favor? Opposed? Motion passes.
Terry M.: Motion to approve the WSBT subcommittee reports; inclusive of Finance, International Structure and Development, Legal, Long-Term Planning, NewsGram, Orientation, Trustee Election, Trustee Outreach, and World Service Conference.
Joy H.: Second.
Randy G.: Motion by Terry to approve the WSBT subcommittee reports; inclusive of Finance, International Structure and Development, Legal, Long-Term Planning, NewsGram, Orientation, Trustee Election, Trustee Outreach, and World Service Conference, second by Joy. All in favor? Opposed? Motion passes.
Joy H.: Motion to approve Trustee Conference Committee reports; excluding the three convention reports; inclusive of Archives, Conference, Convention, Finance, H&I, IT, Literature, Chips & Format, Public Information, Structure & Bylaws, and Unity.
Richard L.: Second.
Randy G.: Motion by Joy to approve Trustee Conference Committee reports; excluding the three convention reports; inclusive of Archives, Conference, Convention, Finance, H&I, IT,
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Literature, Chips & Format, Public Information, Structure & Bylaws, and Unity, second by
Richard L. All those in favor? Opposed? Motion passes.
Russell S.: Motion to approve CAWS 2012 convention report.
Joy H.: Second.
Randy G.: Motion to approve CAWS 2012 report by Russell, second by Joy. All those in favor? Opposed? Motion passes unanimously.
Kenny W.: Motion to approve the CAWS 2013 convention report.
Joy H.: Second.
Randy G.: Motion to approve the CAWS 2013 convention report, made by Kenny, second by Joy. All those in favor? Opposed? Motion passes unanimously.
Joy H.: Motion to approve the CAWS 2014 convention report.
Terry M.: Second.
Randy G.: Motion by Joy, second by Terry to approve the CAWS 2014 convention report. All those in favor? Opposed? Motion passes unanimously.
Randy G.: That brings us to the CAWS updates. Russell, can you fill us in on CAWS 2012?
Russell S.: Activity is picking up on the committee; we are over halfway to our commitment at the hotel with the bed quota, room night quota, which is good news. Registration is slow and low, which I don’t think is abnormal for this Fellowship. Whilst I didn’t particularly enjoy being pummeled last year for not registering at this time with the trustees, please consider going online and registering. It would encourage others perhaps to do likewise. I say that as someone who has not yet registered. Preconvention fundraising is going pretty good. I think income over expenditure is about 19,000 Sterling in net gain, which is quite good. A lot of merchandise being put together at the moment. Some cool stuff. Committee is
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enthused and I am as well, with their work. We could do with some help from you guys;
Peter and I will start working after this quarterly with respect to room requirements.
We’ve got a suite available to us, if everybody is happy, for our quarterly meeting. There will be wi-fi there. We may need Richard’s help to share the wi-fi amongst us. We’ve got a
couple of lines in there, we could probably go for a ________ line, I think that’s a minor
point. It’s really just sorting out, from our point of view it’s the beds. It’s getting extremely busy, there is a steering committee straight after this board meeting finishes on Sunday. Feel free to pop on Skype with me, I will be in the lobby somewhere, just to say hello. I’m sure they would welcome you.
Brian T.: What’s happening with the bank account, do we know yet?
Russell S.: I have been in contact every other day with Linda and Barry. There is regular communication with the bank. They are waiting to finalize the details. The last email that was forwarded to me said they are finalizing the details and forwarding the payment book—the deposit slips.
Richard L.: There will be an announcement at the Board-to-Board meeting.
Brian T.: What is 19,000 Sterling in dollars?
Russell S.: Multiply by 1.5.
Brian T.: For your usual area conventions, how does registration go? Do you usually wait until the last minute, generally speaking?
Russell S.: Yes.
Randy G.: Has anybody made their flight arrangements yet? Is it still my understanding, and I just want to be clear on this because it was brought up at the last quarterly, we are looking to fly in the day prior to the beginning of the quarterly, May 19.
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Russell S.: I would strongly suggest that somebody that regularly comes over here go in,
____________, it is pretty tough going that way. If you’ve got the chance, I would take
that day early from a physical point of view, if not more.
Peter D.: If we were to get there a day earlier, will the hotel give us a break on rooms?
Russell S.: Yes. Whilst I cannot make any promises, there has been the offer of help by members of those of you flying into London or Birmingham, as long as you don’t spring it on me a week or two weeks before. If you know what your travel plans are prior, let me know, I can try and arrange lifts for those of you wanting to stay in London for a couple of days. It may be actually not be business; there is the offer of help from our local Fellowship. I have been asking you individually, is everyone good with their passports? I will write you a list of things to bring with you, I do not want to be patronizing, socket adaptors, some useful things to help packing. Umbrellas.
Randy G.: Another point that was brought up at the last quarterly, when you are looking for flights, it was recognized last time that flights directly to Birmingham were in fact, at least from Phoenix, cheaper than flying into London. If you’ve just kind of taken it for granted that you are flying into London and have to pay for either the train or other transportation to get to Birmingham, plus the time and effort to do that, there are opportunities and actually some fiscally responsible ones to go directly to Birmingham. Please keep that in mind while booking travel.
Russell S.: There were some registration books handed out at conference, they are starting to be returned very slowly. If you feel it’s appropriate, you could just ping it out on your regional groups to ask those people holding ticket stubs to start thinking about…I think the cutoff point is sometime in February. I’m not sure of the date. So if you could ask the
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members that have raffle tickets and money to return them over the next few weeks to the World Service Office, or by the cutoff date, it would be appreciated.
Randy G.: They go to the office?
Brian T.: Andrew sent out a couple of reminders.
Randy G.: Exciting stuff. Any other questions? Thank you Russell. 2013 CAWS convention.
Kenny W.: 2013 is actually on track, pretty good on track. While I talk, I will just pass this around, this is some of the artwork, some of you guys have seen it already. They’re numbered 1-6. Please don’t scrutinize the artwork, it’s just a draft, so if you see some logo issues or some other issues, it’s just a draft. None of this has been chosen at all, it’s just where we’re at in the process. Splash of Serenity, we’ve chosen a name for it. Splash of Serenity, most of you know that the hotel has been procured. It is the Ft. Lauderdale Westin Beach Resort. Fundraising is ongoing in the area, a couple of areas in Florida held fundraisers over the last month. South Florida held bowling for dollars and raised about $500. Another area, Ft. Meyers in Tampa, they had a fundraiser, I’m not sure of the money on that as of yet. The steering committee is meeting regularly now. Registration, we are waiting for 2012. Some of the members felt that the registration should start taking place a little earlier, we said it can’t start taking place, not right now, until immediately after we almost adjourn with 2012. I think that has been communicated effectively with them. So everything is on target, considering the fact that this whole process for 2013 was a year behind out of the gate. To date, there are still a few little glitches here and there, but it isn’t anything major that we can’t work out within the timeframe we have. As we stand, at this point, this date, we’re on target to where we should be at this time.
Randy G.: Questions for Kenny? Thanks. CAWS 2014.
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Joy H.: Steering committee is up and running, they are currently taking resumes in for the general committee. They have not done a set date yet for choosing the general committee, but they are in full swing and working on it. They’ve started a Yahoo group and are moving forward.
Randy G.: Any questions for Joy? Before we move on past CAWS convention updates, I would just like to get a feel if any of the trustees believe any location in their regions are preparing or coming prepared to the conference to put in for 2015 and 2016?
Brian T.: I think Illinois is going to post for 2016; I don’t know about 2015.
Kenny W.: I think there is, I won’t know until our area meeting, which will be the second Sunday of next month, but for the last few months, actually the last year, more so the last few months, Memphis has been considering putting their name in for the bid for 2015.
Randy G.: Is there anyone else that knows of anything in their region that may be considering 2015? Are there convention guidelines that need to be set-aside for 2015 to take place in a region in that timeframe, possibly at least preparing the committee to address that if they do come forward.
Brian T.: Absolutely.
Terry M.: That did happen just recently, when we had all the confusion a few years ago when we didn’t have any bids, and got Calgary. It ended up that Denver and Houston were in the same timeframe, which was against our guidelines at the time, and they allowed that to happen. There were two conventions in the same region, Houston and Colorado within a four-year period.
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Randy G.: We just did Denver and Phoenix with only a year in between. It needs, at least to have preparation, for a committee to come forward, that it would come up at the conference level. At least be prepared to speak to it.
Richard S.: Is the office aware that, should it come to it, the office would be putting on a 2015, if need be. It is very unlikely; I’m making sure the office is aware.
Richard L.: Since nothing has been brought up yet, until we get notified on it.
Peter D.: Two years in a row from the same area.
Joy H.: No, it does not have to be in Los Angeles, the office would just be responsible for putting the convention on.
Richard S.: By saying “they,” we are part of the “they”. Specifically the DOO might need to be aware of that. Maybe some phone calls when she is receiving some of those phone calls, encourage some of the people calling in to put a convention on in their area. I wanted to make certain this information was liaised to the office.
Richard L.: Thanks for the heads-up, and you know what, maybe we should talk about this at the Board-to-Board.
Randy G.: I can also let you know there were initial discussions, though I have not yet heard back from anyone out of the Texas area that from a standpoint of historical success in Houston and the size of a Fellowship that could do something fairly quickly like that; it was something they’d been asked to look into. I have not yet heard anything back from them regarding that.
Richard L.: We haven’t heard from that area for a while.
Richard S.: Houston?
Richard L.: Texas.
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Randy G.: I did add this item to the Board-to-Board agenda. Place marker business item 2006.02.20, copyright and trademark protection.
Peter D.: I sent out an email a few weeks ago about the CA letters in Europe. They can only be trademarked with C.A. because in Europe C.A. means an abbreviation for something and C.A. means C.A. So it is going to be trademarked as C.A. That brings up the question so everybody is the same, do we change all our literature and everything to C.A.? So it’s the same in Europe as it is in the United States and that will be some decision that we have to make up. We don’t have to use it here legally with the periods. They have to use it in Europe with the periods, but we’re covered over here either way. So I was thinking that to keep everything unified, it should be in our literature and things that we print, that we make up should be C.A. and some people can use it however they want to use it here, it doesn’t matter, but for unity’s sake, I think it should be C.A. and whoever makes that decision should address it when the time comes to discussing it. Everything else is in order, we got a letter from Bob C., I forwarded it to Kenny. It was kind of a generic letter about trust, copyright violations. Bob mentioned that once you send that letter, then it kind of sets the clock ticking to the people you send it to. Once you send it, you have to follow up on it, something has to be done, if not, then we lose our legal claim to whatever we’re trying to protect. So, when you do send it, just make sure you’re there to follow-up on it to make sure it is changed and they don’t…cause if we send a letter and they don’t change it and we don’t say anything, then that means we’re really not going after what we’ve protected, so we can lose our copyright or trademark rights or whatever that might be. Whenever the letter is sent, it needs to be followed-up on and there needs to be action taken one way or another.
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If you have any more questions, Bob said you can call him and check with him, if anybody has any questions about that. That’s about all I have with trademarks and copyrights.
Richard S.: On the topic of the registration in Europe, looking at another 12-step Fellowship, while the literature is using the periods, their actual logo is not.
Peter D.: Our logo does not have to have periods.
Richard L.: He is speaking of another Fellowship.
Richard S.: You are saying, registering the trademark in Europe.
Peter D.: The letters CA, not the logo.
Richard S.: The letters CA can be, so you’re talking about just literature?
Peter D.: The circle logo; that can be without, cause that’s a logo. But if it’s used, just the letters, it has to be C.A.
Richard S.: working for another Fellowship without issue. I appreciate your
stating the importance of unity.
Peter D.: I asked him why don’t we have to use it in the circle logo, he said that’s because that’s a logo.
Richard S.: It’s an image.
Peter D.: It has to do with the individual letters.
Richard S.: That’s what I caught here. It seems to be working for another Fellowship and I’m glad you mentioned the unity aspect. Thank you.
Randy G.: Being responsible to the logo and trademarks, does the WSBT believe we need to take action at this point in time regarding the C.A. versus CA issue in our literature, or does the recommendation for consistency put us in a position that the conference…the reason I bring this up, is the last X number of years we have some individual in the conference that
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have been very diligent regarding C.A. utilization. We have just recently taken great lengths to explain to them that is not necessarily required anymore. If it would be our belief that to hold our literature consistent to whoever may receive it, wherever they are, do we need to provide either recommendation in the form a referral or is it a decision on our part, because we are truly responsible to the trademark and copyrights of Cocaine Anonymous at this level to make the decision more formal?
Joy H.: I think to be unified, we as a board, need to let the office know that since we oversee the trademark and copyrights, to make it unified, we need all of our literature to say C.A. it is more of a housekeeping thing that Cynthia could probably do very quickly, being the publication liaison. She has done most of the templates for much of the literature we have now. We need to deplete our current inventory as we always do. This will take five years? Peter D.: Four years.
Joy H.: We have time to deplete our current inventory and make everything cohesive, in my opinion.
Richard L.: I totally agree. Because we do some in-house printing, it can be done immediately on some of the newer pamphlets, so that’s positive. And any new reprinting of books we do going forward, including once we start doing the French and everything else, anything going forward we can take care of it. It’s the opportune time to start the process. I definitely speak in favor of doing it.
Richard S.: I think it makes sense, as Joy stated, to embark on it now, there is not a panic situation. I believe it is most important that we address this at conference, where last conference we were very informative that it is unnecessary and that at this conference we state that we’re making this move, and why. It is important we make this remark at
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conference, whether it goes out in the literature beforehand, I believe it’s important. I would leave that to Peter to make that, it was a very good description as to why, where we’re moving, why we’re doing it. I would like you, if you can, to report on that to conference for us.
Peter D.: At the conference?
Kenny W.: I agree with what you are all saying, it is a good move, it is a good look for us. There is one concern that I have, it’s sort of a CYA thing. I do believe, it’s what you said as it relates to Bob, what he told you regarding that. Can we get that in some form of documentation so that we can formally say, ok, this is the way it is, we have some formal…some tangible proof of that. So we are covered.
Peter D.: What are you…
Kenny W.: In terms of the C.A. versus the CA.
Peter D.: Didn’t you guys all get his email? I sent the letter from Gans. It says why in there.
Kenny W.: I understand that, but you guys, as a board okay using that as a formal documentation of our reasoning and our stance? I guess that’s where I’m going with this because, you know how the conference floor gets. If we can say, look, this is…I understand what you’re saying, is there something formal he could give us, a bit more formal? That’s all I’m asking.
Richard L.: I have a question, it’s a food for thought question. Do you want to wait until September on this thing or do you want to start on it now and maybe put something in the newsletter about it, or do you want to wait and do something at conference? Just a question, we’re taking like nine months away. That’s the whole thing, the office can start doing the stuff, at least start on it right away, maybe we put something inside of the
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newsletter and let them know what we’re doing. We still have to bring it to the conference floor, I’m just trying to say, do you want to keep it a hush-hush thing?
Randy G.: In general discussion, I can have an opinion?
Joy H.: Yes.
Richard L.: No matter what we do, we still discuss what we’ve done over a period of time and then as for conference approval or whatever it is, share what we’ve done.
Richard S.: The procedure is, you ask this body if you can speak to it.
Joy H.: Would you like to speak to this Randy?
Randy G.: May I speak to this matter? There is substantial unanimity noted. Considering that the publication of new material at this point in time is minimal until conference, everything is conference approved up to now, very little of our current literature does not
have C.A., so we aren’t discussing . We have recently told everybody we
could actually have something that doesn’t have the periods, so most of our literature already does. To make the office aware of it in the short period of time, my only concern with presenting something in the newsletter, the conference is such a wonderful place to provide this information and be present when the first knee-jerk question and reaction comes from whoever may get this information, I think we handle those issues better face- to-face at a conference than we might with somebody reading it in a newsletter and trying to determine what that means to their own areas and committees, and potential misinterpretation of that type of announcement. I am in favor of Peter making the announcement at the conference, letting the office know that new publications need to be scrutinized for that, those periods need to be put in there…
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Richard L.: So we can take action now or take no action until after conference? That is my question to you.
Randy G.: Personally, I believe we can take action now because the conference has already approved that either is acceptable. With the conference approving either as being acceptable, we are just working to put this all in line and make the literature acceptable everywhere, that requires the periods.
Richard L.: I just want to bring back proper information, that’s all.
Peter D.: I have a letter here on JMBM, Jeffery, Mengels, Butler & Mitchell letterhead.
“Enclosed is the official filing report marked C.A. Cocaine Anonymous goods
and services, the printed publication brochures”…and then he wrote and told us why.
Richard S.: It is a letter dated November 16, if that helps. The original letter, the one you’re looking for?
Peter D.: He wrote something in the letter I sent you about it. We will get back to it, I need to find it.
Randy G.: The general consensus of the board, as I understand it, is that Peter/WSBT will make this notification announcement at this coming conference. The WSOB will be informed by Richard L. to begin its practice immediately.
Richard L.: We are going to mention it at the Board-to-Board.
Randy G.: If I could also ask that the letter that discusses this with respect to Kenny’s concerns to make sure we have a nice trail of information, that letter be printed out and kept as the office as a part of the archived documentation.
Peter D.: Yes, I heard and understand that.
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Randy G.: Upon finding the information in a letter or email, that be kept at the office as part of the archived information regarding the trademark in Europe. Can you make certain Linda files that appropriately? Any other questions for Peter? Hearing none, we will move to marker 2006.08.13, signature of annual corporate documents to be completed at the fall quarterly. That has been accomplished.
Richard L.: Russell has those documents right now.
Richard S.: Can you please state, for the record, how you plan to handle Robert Lyle’s signature? It is not done.
Randy G.: Richard Schafer has made me aware that all of the signatures from those present at the quarterly are on the necessary corporate documents and we will receive Robert’s signature at the next quarterly, which will take place in May at the convention in the UK. Richard L.: We can FedEx it to him, have him sign it, and have him FedEx it back.
Randy G.: If the office believes that would be more efficient.
Richard S.: As these are corporate documents, they must be signed this year.
Randy G.: We will get the documents out to Robert.
Richard L.: I will bring that to the WSO.
Randy G.: Thank you. Marker 2009.05.09, financial status, CAWS, Inc.
Joy H.: We are actually doing all right. We are probably where we always are every year in the first quarter, which is not bad. There are a lot of issues I have with the financials, I will bring them to the Board-to-Board. I know Barry said they were kind of a mess, he was correct about that. I already found quite a few, I sent them to you.
Brian T.: I do not have Excel on my computer, it needs updating.
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Joy H.: Other than that, we are probably where we are supposed to be. Salaries are down, but outside professional is up. I calculated all of that, it’s not very many hours, about 23 hours a month for outside professional—that is for the temp we have, John.
Brian T.: 23 hours a month?
Joy H.: That is minimal, four weeks in a month, and 23 hours is excellent. The volunteers are a great help. We could use more 7th Tradition, but we’re okay. I’m amazed at how well we are actually doing. Richard, what was your budget for NADCP?
Richard S.: It is not my budget; it comes from the NADCP’s budget. I believe it was $750, and Drug Court was $7,500.
Joy H. That budget was not in the financials provided. You appear to have been under¬budget.
Randy G.: To be correct, the $7,500 was for the entire event, last year.
Brian T.: I don’t think that has changed.
Richard S.: It has not changed in three years.
Randy G.: I thought it was increased to see if we could do more up north.
Richard S.: The itemization is NADCP, we cannot use that for the Canadian drug court.
Joy H.: We are in discussion regarding that; it is in long-term planning.
Richard L.: We are doing good, 7th Tradition unfortunately is down and our sales are up,
the income from sales is down, way down, because we’ve lowered the price of the books. In
other words, it’s like we’re giving a $7 item for $4-5, so it’s like we’re hurting. We need to
get, we are not getting that much newcomers, or new people coming into the Fellowship
and buying books, at least here in America. It’s a cry out to other people in the area, we
have to start to getting sales of material and inventory out of that office. They have a lot of
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stuff and we need to ; I don’t know, I don’t have an answer but whatever you
guys can do it’s deeply appreciated. It helps.
Joy H.: We are supposed to get numbers on inventory and sales, I requested it so that I could report on HFC 2’s ad hoc committee, I never received the information. I asked for actual inventory and our sales numbers; how many books are going out a month. I did not get the information I requested.
Russell S.: Didn’t we get that information when we were live on that conference call with the ad hoc committee?
Joy H.: I want current numbers.
Russell S.: At the time, those numbers were current.
Joy H.: At that time, yes, those numbers were current. Now the numbers have changed. I know many books went to the UK, what I want is where we are now.
Richard L.: When was your ad hoc committee meeting?
Russell S.: Before conference.
Peter D.: Since we’re selling those books for $4.75 and…I was in there today, there were a shitload of them left. How long do we stay at $4.75, just to get rid of them, to get them out of there? Is anybody marketing them or calling up any of the Hazelden or anybody to get rid of them, or is there anybody doing anything? Can we do something about that, talk about lowering the price…just sitting there at $4.75 is a great price. But they’re still sitting there, pallets of them in the back. I would rather get $2.00 apiece than have them sit there for $4.75 apiece. When do we start doing something cause there’s a lot of books back there. One little corner was emptied out since last year, and they’re all still there except for one
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section of it. How long do you sit on them? I know we lowered them to $4.75 but they’re still there.
Russell S.: I think it’s the power of the purse speaking. I don’t think our Fellowship want the book. I don’t think the Fellowship wants as many books as they’re buying; it is the power of the purse speaking; nothing to do with anything other than that. I believe the Fellowship is speaking.
Brian T.: I think part of the problem is that there were way too many ordered. They’re still being sold; there were just so ridiculously many of them that this is the main issue. They are still being purchased, not as much as they were, just not as much as they were. I don’t think I would lower the price, I would consider raising the price again. Perhaps saying the price is going up $2.00, why don’t you buy it now…this is a special price because come whatever date, it’s going to go up a little bit. I hate to lower it any more than it is. Is Hazelden carrying the book anymore?
Richard S.: No.
Peter D.: It’s not in the catalog.
Joy H.: They bought a case of HFC 2 as a test, they have not ordered any more.
Peter D.: Anyone gotten back to them? Who’s in charge of getting back to them?
Joy H.: Linda.
Richard S.: For the record, Linda was not working at the office at the time that particular purchase was made, she may not know to follow-up with that. Richard, do you want to bring that to the Board-to-Board, when this discussion comes up, that may be helpful.
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Russell S.: When we get what Joy was asking for with the current inventory and sales, can we also have a comparison of two and maybe five years ago, book sales? I know we bought a large stock, having a large stock doesn’t make a difference to how many you sell.
Richard L.: The large purchase was made before I came on the board.
Russell S.: As principal financial planners, if we are beginning to think this book is going to be one of our financial resources, maybe we need to ground ourselves and really review how much we can depend on a book, that for whatever reason is not selling, not bringing in money. We keep coming back to HFC 2 and the issues surrounding it; how can we move it. I think maybe we need to ground ourselves and ask if our Fellowship actually wants this thing and will it ever produce the income we want the book to.
Richard L.: The other part is that we don’t have a whole lot of new Fellowship members coming in. How many editions of HFC are you actually going to own in your lifetime? People buy one, maybe two. The realistic average consumer might have one or two, maybe one HFC 1 and one HFC 2. Unless we have a big wave of newcomers coming in, that’s where the sales go, that’s what happens in other 12-step programs. They get a book when they come in. Unfortunately in my area, we are just not getting a lot of newcomers. We have a lot of people who’ve slipped and are coming back, but they’ve already got the book and they already have the materials. There’s not all the rehabs anymore out here on the West Coast like they used to have. They definitely don’t bus them anymore. That membership drive just isn’t there anymore, that’s one of the reasons the books are just kind of sitting there. They’re not even reading that much of it at the meetings. We read Who is a CA Member, Who is a Cocaine Addict, that’s the only time. They don’t have a Hope, Faith & Courage book study, unfortunately. Well, maybe one or two, but they’re using the Big Book. I don’t know,
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I’m just throwing this out, we need that new generation to come in here and keep CA alive. I’m just trying to throw it out here to the trustees and see if we can spark the energy. I don’t have an answer.
Brian T.: I think Russell touched on something. I don’t think we should be using that book as our financial answer. The answer is actually new literature coming out. I know the meditation book has been going on for many years, and there is no release date in sight. That’s unfortunate, [someone was making a lot of noise with crackling paper], the 12 & 12, three years ago, I don’t think the concept has even gotten off the ground yet.
Joy H.: They’re working on it.
Brian T.: Okay, that’s great. It is probably going to take some time. And like you said, it’s a story book, it’s not the program, with our basic tool, the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous, and unless we are going toward, and I am not advocating this, but if you’re going to sell something, that’s the kind of situation to be bought on a regular basis, such as with AA or NA’s book is done that way. I don’t think can use that, you have to assume sales are going to continue to decline overall for the storybook sales, at least domestically. Maybe if we start to branch out into other languages, we can increase. We need to get the meditation book published. That would be very helpful. Most of my meetings read a meditation book, none are CA approved.
Kenny W.: I don’t want to…Brian, he stole my thunder…What I hear a lot about is pretty much what’s already been said by Brian. What I hear is, it’s just a storybook. I mean, that’s what I hear. Then they gravitate back to the basic textbook they can actually hold. I’ve been thinking, and I’m glad we’re talking about this, I think we need to, I don’t know where we’re at, you trustees have been around longer than I, you would certainly know if that has come
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up before or is it in process? We really need to formulate our own textbook that outlines the program of recovery in that aspect. I don’t know what it’s going to take, but that would definitely be something that could constantly regenerated and reused over and over again. By treatment facilities, by Hazelden, and places unlike a storybook. You read a storybook a couple of times, I got that. But to use it as a tool of recovery, it’s not in that arsenal per se. Meditation books are, the study books, the books that are outlined like the 12 & 12; I don’t really like using the names of these other books, but the facts are the facts. I’m just piggybacking on what you’ve already said, because I feel that so strongly, that is what we need. I can’t express that enough, I feel that Cocaine Anonymous needs.
Richard S.: The topic of it sparks the fire in me because I like the idea of the storybook because my understanding from day one with the storybooks was it is a companion to go along with the Big Book so that we could have the stories to relate to, but the Big Book was still our basic text. I recall HFC 2 was to have some of that pertinent material from the Big Book in it, so it was even more of a completed book for us. I like the idea of a storybook, I love the idea of a meditation book, and I actually like the fact that the meditation book is taking so long. I think it’s going to be a very good product. I like the fact that they’re waiting for good quality submissions and we don’t have a bunch of volunteers writing scribble and putting in submissions. Sometimes I’m in too much of a hurry to get something done, and I believe I can say that I’m always satisfied when something is done right; that usually takes me a while. I just had to share on the spark that ignites in me, the CA storybook was developed as a companion to the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous.
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Kenny W.: I would just like to clarify this. I’m not taking anything away from the storybook at all. If it came off that way, I just want to clear that up. I guess my passion is over on this side, where we need to move from underneath AA. We’ve been around for 29 years…
Richard L.: 30.
Kenny W.: Thank you. We need to gravitate toward our purpose now. We’ve sprouted our wings and we’re doing, all praise to the people who have come before us, and God and our Higher Power, but I do have a passion for us having our own, for lack of a better word, book. Instead of Big Book, but our version of a Big Book for our Fellowship. I hear that a lot in the Fellowship in my area, I hear it some in the region, but I’m closer to my area than I am, because I’m grounded there. I have a passion for, in addition to having the storybooks as a companion instead of using the Big Book as the forefront or the main text, because if that’s the companion, what is it a companion to? We need to have our own book so it will be a companion to our own. I’m not taking anything away from what the storybook, as you stated was intended to be, a companion to the Big Book. Well let it be a companion to our own CA book so that we can do step studies and book studies directly from that just as NA does. I have a deep passion for us to have that and not taking anything, let me emphasize, away from any of our literature that we already have. This is to add to. I just felt I needed to say that too.
Peter D.: I was just thinking, when NA started, they used the Big Book then they came up with the basic text, I wonder what their growth spurt was after they wrote their own book.
Richard S.: It was huge, 300%?
Peter D.: So their growth spurt was huge. In my area, San Diego, CA is at a standstill. It’s not getting any bigger, it’s not getting any less. It’s just right there. What’s taking over right
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now is Heroin Anonymous, a lot of young kids are going there for whatever, but like Kenny said, I like the idea of our book. Storybook’s a great book, I have read it, more than once, but I think if NA exploded, why can’t CA explode with their own book?
Terry M.: I thought 4-5 years ago, we approved the concept of a 12-step workbook and study guide. Where is that even in the process, are they even doing anything.
Joy H.: Yes, they’re getting submissions.
Terry M.: Who are they getting submissions from?
Randy G.: They are in the position to either write that or request. I’m not aware of any formal submissions…
Joy H.: There was never a formal request to the Fellowship. There was a request to the LCF committee to write different.
Terry M.: So where are they in that process?
Joy H.: I think they have.
Terry M.: I know we’re off topic, because we were talking about HFC 2 inventory in the office, and somehow we’ve gone over into.
[too much cross talk, unintelligible]
Randy G.: I have allowed it go here from a place of principle. We are in the financial status, and the principal financial planners, this book is obviously a big part of that.
Terry M.: Where is that book in the process?
Joy H.: Very young.
Terry M.: That was 4-5 years ago, I think.
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Peter D.: How long does it take to put a book like that together? How long did it take NA to put the basic text together? How long would it take us to put a recovery book together, like the basic text, like the Big Book? How long does that take? Does anyone have any idea?
Brian T. How long has the meditation book taken?
Richard L.: The meditation book has taken a long time. I believe NA’s book took 5-7 years to do the NA book. It cost them $49 for the first one.
Randy G.: I would hope it takes that long.
Peter D.: This meditation book, what would be more important to CA, a meditation book or a basic text big book? Who would benefit us more?
Brian T.: I honestly don’t know the answer to that question. I do know that we are talking about a text. I don’t think the conference is going to approve a basic text. Look at the history of what happened with How It Works. Last time this came up, the survey that was sent out and responses from the Fellowship were 75% who said don’t even consider it, don’t want to hear it, don’t want to think about it. If it’s not broken, don’t fix it was the resounding response. Part of the problem is conference is not ready for that. Whether or not it’s going to be big or not, I do not know. You said your area, I can tell you right now, most people I know don’t want this book. The Big Book works, there’s nothing wrong with it, they don’t want to hear about it, it’s not a consideration. From a financial standpoint, the meditation book will sell.
Randy G.: The concept was approved to do the 12-step guide/workbook. Some believe would probably come as close to representing an effort toward a basic text or a Big Book. The idea, and I want to bring this up, and it’s self-serving to a certain degree because of something the trustees tried to do last year, and the importance of it, that concept, once
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approved, never goes back to the conference floor for approval in the current book approval process. Whatever LCF brings forward as a 12-step workbook will walk through the publication process and only the trustees would have an opportunity to approve, make corrections, notations, and only in regards to tradition violations and anything that might affect CA as a whole. The idea that the conference will never approve, we have to be very careful, the current book approval process does not require conference approval for publication of a book. The concept was approved in 2003, and though they are in their infant stage of putting that together, the development of that workbook, I encourage us to look toward that referral again this year and continually look for some guidance and oversight into how that could take off.
Russell S.: Going back to Peter’s question as what would the Fellowship benefit from best, either a step guide or a meditation book; being as we’re in finance, I want to answer it with that. I believe the best thing at the moment is to encourage submissions for the meditation book and get that on the literature tables. I have sat on the floor at my first conference when I heard about the step guide, I was mortified. I come from an area of what the
conference agreed on the concept, a lot of the feedback was _______________. From
a financial standpoint, I see the meditation book being a positive thing. I use Daily Reflections, I’ve had two in the seven years I’ve been around. Randy said he’s used 3-4. We tend to replace them. A meditation book would, I think, be a good financial resource to us. Richard L.: I agree with Russell. Plus the fact that that being written would probably be written much more quickly than the other kind of book. Chances of that coming out would be a lot faster and therefore more financially beneficial.
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Kenny W.: I think that the meditation book is in the pipeline. Its way down the pipeline in comparison to what we’re talking about, this study guide. From that standpoint alone, right now, as we speak, it would be the meditation book. As principal financial planners and how we should be looking down the road for this Fellowship, the things we could put in the toolbox of recovery; the more of those tools that go in that box that have our CA logo on it, the more self-sufficient we will be. Our identity as a Fellowship that is really serious about recovery, I’m not saying that we’re not, but I’m saying from a standpoint of outside looking in, it would have an enormous impact. Here again, I am so passionate about this, I don’t know where it came from, but the topic is just evoking something inside me that is…something we need, I feel. It will be a catalyst that would take us to the next level. As I look around and look at the numbers and areas in my region, it’s pretty stagnant; it has leveled off. We need to take it to the next level. If there’s something I can do to help this process along, maybe it should be my personal, I don’t know, I’m villainous right now and that is something we need. Whether it be HFC 3 and put the stories in the back of it, sort of like the format of the Big Book. You’ve got all of the recovery in the forward, and then you have the stories. It would be a tool that we could use to generate money and also carry the message.
Peter D.: You mentioned something about the big whoop-di-do about How It Works. In San Diego it was insane. Nobody, nobody mentions How It Works anymore. They all read We Can Recover and some meetings pick to choose neither one. In a year it phased completely out and no one even talks about it anymore. I don’t think our Fellowship would have adapting to anything that we put out. There’s always going to be people asking how we can do without the Big Book, same way we do it without How It Works. How can we go to a
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meeting without How It Works? It’s working. There’s no more How It Works in San Diego, and there were some battles. They forgot all about it now.
Randy G.: Any other questions for Joy or Richard regarding the financial status of CAWS, Inc.?
Russell S.: Is it too early, I know we are just into December, has there been any feedback on the Gratitude Month, has anything started to come in?
Randy G.: I know Saturday Night Live did $300 in one night, we only passed the bucket the one night and told them we’re going to come out here and do this one time, we didn’t tell them we were going to hit them up every week for a month. We asked them to step up to the plate for one night.
[Richard Leve: You can be heard whispering too frequently on the tape, it covers over whomever else is speaking…]
Joy H.: We did have my caucus, we passed the Gratitude Month can and I know a lot of the meetings in my region, there was a lot of discussion about passing it every single meeting. We, as a region, said its Gratitude Month, take a group conscience. You can do it at the beginning, middle or the end of the month. You need to pass the basket and send those funds to CAWSO. I’m not exactly sure how much went, I know they were doing it.
Richard L.: I got a can in the trunk of my car I’m taking to the WSO from the Saturday morning meeting.
Randy G.: It’s probably too late, as far as the Gratitude Month tally, as it is already December.
Joy H.: We can find out tomorrow.
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Brian T.: I don’t know if this is a question for the Board-to-Board, what is the deal with the books? Is this a book issue with the financials, because it’s a mess mixed together, or is it something else?
Joy H.: It has to do with posting errors. The office is working on it. Barry told me in advance that there were a lot of errors. We are paying someone to do it, so…
Richard L.: It wasn’t him, it was Tom that entered some stuff incorrectly, so he’s trying to back it out and find out where it was posted incorrectly.
Joy H.: There are a few mis-postings. I always give him a list of what I see.
Richard L.: He likes to run it through Joy first, before he sends it out.
Joy H.: They’re going to clean it up, we are right on track. First quarter, -$24,000 is really good for us. Usually it’s like -$30-35,000 because of conference expenses. We are actually better than usual. Convention is 4th quarter, conference is 1st quarter. I’m looking at you
Richard (Schafer), trying to wrap your head around it.
Richard S.: I was remembering the numbers from last year, I think we were actually in the 20’s.
Joy H.: Last year we were at about 32.
Richard S.: Last year I think we were in the 20’s and we were surprised at how well we were doing.
Richard L.: I had to do a couple of transfers.
Randy G.: We are back on the record after a short break so Joy could look up some financial status information.
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Joy H.: Last year, first quarter was a -43,000 and some change. I have 2009 information and actually have it from July to December; it was a -$32,000. We were better off in 2009-2010 than 2010-2011. We are doing pretty good 2011-2012.
Randy G.: For the record, didn’t we receive a rather large chunk, though, 15 or 12 from the UK?
Russell S.: $16,000 this quarter.
Randy G.: After that question, quite frankly that needs to be taken into consideration in the discussion because that money truly could have been spread over at least two quarters.
The number realistically is how we are doing it. It’s probably a little worse than the 24 because we got a chunk.
Brian T.: It’s probably closer to where we were last year.
Russell S.: On the other hand, that particular area did have a chunk of money misappropriated that was destined to be coming to you, of $20 odd thousand dollars.
Randy G.: The news is still good. But the news could always be better. Any other questions regarding the financial status? Marker NADCP.
[opening wrappers is picked up by the microphones and buries any talking]
Richard S.: Next year, 2012, NADCP is being held in Nashville, Tennessee. It will be May 30 through June 2. This year will be attended by the DOO, Linda Francisco, myself, and Kenny Williams, the Atlantic South Regional Trustee, because Drug Court is in his region. When they mentioned tickets, I was hoping you hand didn’t go up, as I’ve already looked into travel. Right now prices are good. I can arrange the three-legged trip because Kenny, Linda and myself have to leave the day after the convention closes. We cannot stay for the technical end of the convention and catch a flight out of the country to travel home; we
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actually have to travel the following day. We will fly straight from the UK to Nashville, Tennessee for three days. We will get about 12 hours of sleep and then be on our feet, working for three days. After Drug Court, we travel home. We’ve had to do this once before, it is doable and the lack of sleep is almost an insanity that is another level of spirituality.
But it really is just insanity.
Russell S.: Is there anything that can be done for you guys at the convention to help alleviate the workload, long-term planning, maybe on the morning you’re leaving or the day before you’re leaving?
Richard S.: Absolutely, is there a current schedule for the closing day?
Russell S.: I hope to have that information and begin uploading it in the next couple of weeks.
Richard S.: Great question, thank you. Yes, anything that would be, and truly, all of us helping Linda. She has the heaviest burden out of any of us, both at the convention and the Drug Court. She will need our support. It is a huge undertaking and I am willing, once I saw that I couldn’t get out of the country unless I left the convention before closing, I didn’t think that was a good option. I would rather take a day of travel and lack of sleep than leave the convention early. Anything that affects the DOO’s details, which is mostly nothing that is in our control, finances on the last days, anything that affects our long-term planning meetings or anything like that, if you can alleviate Kenny and myself from those that last day or…well, the last day is still fine, we are still there. My plan, unless this board says that’s a bad plan, I think it’s important we stay until the close of the convention on Monday. I’m glad you’re aware of it, my thoughts. I’ve looked at flights right now are becoming affordable. It was $1,800, that was a tentative price. If I can do better I will. I don’t think I
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can. That was Denver to Newark, Newark to Birmingham, then to Nashville and back to Denver. The office will need to prepare the shipments ahead of time. We can discuss this more at the Board-to-Board to clarify everything to everyone. January is when CAWSO will begin making reservations for our booth and expo. It is not uncommon at this quarterly to not have a lot to report on Drug Court. We have the machine going, everything is in place. Peter D.: Does it make sense for you guys to do all of that and be there for three days with very little sleep? How goofy do you get without sleep? Is this what we want in a booth for three days to people we are trying to impress? If you were to leave a day earlier, what would that…I mean, we could cover for you guys. Again, that makes sense to me. We will cover for you guys, whatever needs to be done, we will get it handled. If you and Linda have to go and just stay up for three solid days, that’s insanity. Just a thought.
Richard S.: I have done this one other time. I did not travel cross-continent; that is the difference. I can function on little sleep and I felt it was important; I brought it up here because it’s an important discussion for us to have and it is a board decision not an individual decision. I felt it was so important for us to be in Birmingham through the close of the convention.
Richard L.: I appreciate that, I think I would leave it to each individual because the trustee meetings are mostly at the beginning of the convention and through part of the convention. As far as Linda is concerned, and getting the stuff to Nashville…if you can do it, you’re superheroes. I know when Russell gets here, he needs a day. For you to do what you need to do, I would prefer to leave it to you as individuals. Especially after a whole convention and a trustee quarterly, I think you will need a little bit of rest to go back in there. If you have no problem with it, that’s great, but maybe Kenny will be tired, or especially Linda,
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she will be pulled by a thousand people, and has twice the responsibility. I don’t know if you can even answer this, because I’m not even aware of it, all of the stuff has to be shipped prior to the Drug Court, who will be there to receive it?
Richard S.: This is standard, it is always shipped a week before and it’s staged professionally by union shops and on a pallet waiting for us. We do have one day before Drug Court. Only one day. I have this marked on my calendar not only so you all can see it, I can see it as well. Drug Court begins Wednesday. If we leave here Tuesday, we arrive Tuesday, it begins the next day. Monday is an option. Set up cannot begin until Wednesday no matter when we arrive. We cannot do anything before Wednesday.
Russell S.: You are technically on the road for just under two weeks.
Richard S. It is the same scenario as two years ago, except we are traveling across continent. To leave Monday, we would have to miss the close of the convention.
Joy H.: Are you okay with that?
Richard S.: No. But I am not dictating for anyone else and I’m not dictating for myself. My preference is, as a representative of the Fellowship that has paid for me to be there, to be there. That is my belief.
Terry M.: Doesn’t the DOO spend a day or two after the convention cleaning up afterward?
Richard S.: Yes, usually one to two days following the convention.
Russell S.: This is going to take some liaising, especially with the different banking we have there, we are not going to have as many members of the WSOB there. As lead of this item, you will liaise, not just specifically around Drug Court, but with the workload itinerary? Is that going to be liaised between the two people here? My concern is, if you are leaving and Linda going as well, as the first convention outside the US, there may be some unforeseen
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issues that may arise. That being the case, are we sure Teresa and Barry are going to be available? Will they be available to help tidy up?
Peter D.: I would think since Teresa is the chair and the DOO has to leave, she will do and fulfill…I don’t know how that works but it makes sense to me that Teresa fills in for Linda since she will be gone.
Brian T.: You are assuming that she can, she is not a paid employee. Linda is paid to work at this event.
Richard L.: The treasurer is already aware he must remain the extra day.
Richard S.: I want you to know I let Linda know this last quarter, at Drug Court. We have discussed this. This is not a new discussion. However, I am glad you are all taking this with the seriousness I hear and the questions. It is appreciated, and I think we need good, healthy decisions.
Russell S.: I am asking this only to know if it has been considered. Does Linda have to be at Drug Court? Can another member of the WSOB attend Drug Court?
Richard S.: The answer is yes. Absolutely. I have been the advocate that the DOO be there because the DOO is the liaison with these outside individuals and our paid employee, so to the general public, this is the face of Cocaine Anonymous. Not me, not Kenny. It is our Director of Operations, our professional in our office. In this circumstance, this will have to be a decision we come up with. I have advocated this, and will continue to do so. It may be something to reconsider.
Russell S.: I am an advocate as well; I’m just thinking in this particular circumstance, have we had a discussion on this particular occasion? I would like to know what is going on with the WSOB representation in the closing down of the convention; that is my only concern
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with this. I have concern about the well being of the three of you. I would like to know that at 12:00 on Monday, there is still someone from the WSOB overseeing the closing down of the convention.
Richard L.: I can tell you nothing has been written in stone yet.
Richard S.: It needs to be discussed at the Board-to-Board.
Peter D.: I have no place to go after. If needed, I have no problem staying. As long as they pay for another room night, I can help.
Richard S.: With respect to Canadian Drug Court, is this an actual line item? I do not believe it is yet.
Brian T.: I do not recall what was done regarding this.
Richard S.: There are three finance people here…
Joy H.: I do not believe it is. I don’t have a copy of the budget.
Richard S.: If you could look into that before the Board-to-Board tomorrow?
Brian T.: Yes.
Joy H.: Yes.
Richard S.: That is the next step for Canadian Drug Court, due to the expenses, it should be a separate expense, it is international, but basically I will report that it is currently being supported by the local Canadian region and some parts of the Canadian region have an interest in CA World support. One area that has been supporting the event for quite a while doesn’t have an interest, rather a concern that the American side may not represent the international.may not know how to represent themselves at International Drug Court. I have discussed with them and assured them that we understand diplomacy and we understand their systems are different. I told them we have an interest in supporting them.
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I will tell you that one thing mentioned was a request for books and literature, basically fund it. I responded that no, it would have to be represented by the World Service Office if it was going to be a funded event. I wanted it to be clear this was discussed.
Russell S.: I am still a bit grey on my understanding of what support is. What is our intention? Is it a World Service activity? I see the good intentions, I also see it turning into a can of worms as to “why are they doing it for that area or region and why can’t we have it over here.” I know the discussion and debate to propose on the floor. Is this a local responsibility, and to what point do we have a stand and allow them to get on with their own PI work?
Richard S.: The one answer to why is Canadian Drug Court has invited us. That is where the initial request came from, not the local Fellowship. People that have attended National Drug Court have expressed an interest in Cocaine Anonymous being represented and believe it would be beneficial to them and to us. The thought of shipping supplies and a booth would be who is responsible? Who would be financially responsible for duties that have to be paid to bring the supplies into the countries and return shipping? These issues are some questions, as well as who is representing them. Has anyone from the worldwide Fellowship selected this individual to represent Cocaine Anonymous as a whole? That would be where we come back to the World Service Office representing at this particular event. That is why we are looking at it. I was gung ho at trying to get us into this year’s. Because of costs, it did not look like something we should do with the upcoming world convention outside of the US. I thought it was a more healthy way to do more investigative work, get us on a proper line item budget and be responsible to the Fellowship.
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Randy G.: There is some complexity involved in that. There are multiple Canadian and International Drug Courts. As we can’t run before we walk, as we step through this process, because it could be argued that the International Drug Court is actually more important to participate in than the Canadian one. There are two difference Canadian Drug Courts, if I remember correctly when we pulled up their websites, as to where they are located, in what province and those kind of issues. Participation in Drug Court. Richard has done a great job trying to figure out how to take it and expand it, there are many complexities involved in how to pick the next one. Then there is someone saying we have one in our area, and next year there will be one in South America or whatever. It’s a lot to swallow and does have to go through budget.
Richard L.: Linda mentioned at the Board, one came up recently and the notice was too short and we couldn’t help them. I know that there is one you’ve talked to her about. We said wait until we have more information, see what the trustees want to do with it. We are aware of it and willing to do whatever support needs to be done out of it. Then of course, whatever the budget allows. Linda has reported on this at the WSOB. I remember a local area had asked about it, the notice was just too short. This area did not even know what they wanted, they were invited, they weren’t registered. We knew Richard was actively involved and it was something much more organized.
Terry M.: I know that the request came out of my region and it’s been represented for the last couple of years by individuals. I don’t understand how it turned into a World Service thing; individual areas have always operated it. I’m kind of confused hearing it’s a World Service thing. It was not a World Service thing to begin with.
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Richard S.: Three years ago, no. A year and a half ago, when Canadian Drug Court invited us; that’s when it became a World Service event. The guys who put on that are the ones who attended the National Drug Court and who invited us.
Terry M.: I understand that.
Randy G.: What are your concerns? Are you concerned that the local area cannot or will not participate?
Terry M.: I know the area that is refusing the World Service Office from being involved in it. Richard S.: He has become more open to the idea in my discussions with him. He was very honest in his concerns. The main concern was Americans coming in, not understanding that the Court system is different and not representing what their place is there.
Terry M.: I am fully aware of the Drug Courts there because I know that Vancouver has a totally different…I am totally aware of that.
Russell S.: I am still having a bit of trouble here. Just because it’s an international event, and just because World Services are asked to attend, it doesn’t mean that World Services must attend. Let’s not deny our local membership the responsibility they have in their vicinities to do their PI work.
Richard S.: We certainly do not. The same as we have a regional trustee. That is why a regional trustee attends National Drug Court. That is what we would do at an International Drug Court.
Russell S.: Why wasn’t the invitation passed on like it would be in any other area, like when an H&I request comes into the World Service Office, it is put out to the local area H&I chair to deal with, or goes to the H&I committee.
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Richard S.: The dialogue, that is how you’re getting this information about the dialogue. They have concerns about who is representing and do we really want them to come. There is dialogue going on there, it has been. There is also an internal struggle in Canada regarding who actually shows up to this. Who actually supports this? They’re divided there on the two areas that are supporting this event. That is it’s own issue. I’m not coming here saying we are going to spend $6,000 and going to Canadian Drug Court. This is the discussion on it and why we are not planting a flag there.
Russell S.: I’m not digging anybody out, I’m just trying to grasp something here that to me is something…I just don’t understand.
Richard S.: I believe that is because there is not a full picture of what’s going on yet.
Randy G.: I think hearing, and just to a certain degree, from state to state, there are different events and participation representing Cocaine Anonymous that local areas do. When the World Service Office can in part of a budget, provide its resources, I would believe that our Fellowship is much more benefited by a World Service Office presentation of those resources if it can be afforded. But I don’t hear anyone speaking that the local areas cannot and are not encouraged to participate in all of these local, whether it be state drug court or friends of recovery thing that Arizona put a booth up for a month ago. Those things happen in areas all over and should be.
Russell S.: What I heard Richard say was that certain local members couldn’t go because they had not had the authority to represent Cocaine Anonymous.
Richard S.: You were speaking of sending the world literature and booth. Anything funded by World must be represented by WSO. I am only speaking about Drug Court. We don’t send the booth to local areas regionally and ask them to facilitate it. World is there to be
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represented. That goes back to what I stated. My belief is that our DOO is the public face of Cocaine Anonymous. Our DOO is there so that when someone from outside who is not an addict or alcoholic, but a judge, medical worker, etc. calls the office, it is Linda, the Director of Operations, how can I help you, what information can I give you?
Russell S.: I don’t agree it has to be like that.
Richard S.: I am not the one saying it has to be, if your belief is that something is an absolute, it is not. I am stating my belief of how we are functioning currently. It is my belief that if we’re sending items from the WSO like our booth, it should be facilitated by the WSO. Russell S.: It may be our support that we offer in sending the booth. It happens with other Fellowships, there are booths that get sent out by other Fellowships to areas, certainly with Alcoholics and Narcotics Anonymous in the European region. There are booths they will send out for a PI committee attending a conference or something like that.
Richard S.: Narcotics and Alcoholics Anonymous both nationally in the United States have a representative from both the region and from their world. That is the model we’ve taken from. In fact, Narcotics Anonymous, the last two years at Drug Court have sent members from their local office and none from the local area. It doesn’t mean this is set in stone and we cannot have the discussion and evolve into something. The dialogue is wonderful. This is where we are, I do believe if our 7th Tradition is funding world, and our world items are being distributed, they should be supported by the DOO. Honestly, my experience now is while it is the task of the TAL, the regional trustee plays an important role. The regional trustee is the one who gets the local members of the Fellowship, has the contact with the area and brings them in to man the booth. The TAL is the coordinator for Drug Court.
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Terry M.: I think Randy kind of hit on it. There is a difference between our National and our state stuff. I know we represent our local Fellowship. Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t our last one in Washington? We don’t really have a Fellowship in Washington, do we?
Richard S.: There were local members that showed up, five members from the surrounding area.
Terry M.: Surrounding area, not necessarily where it’s at.
Richard S.: There is no DC meeting—there was no meeting, I do not know if there is one now.
Terry M.: The one thing about it, the local areas handle the local stuff, I can see why we have world representation at the National, because of the collection of all. It’s not just Washington, it’s a collection of people from all over. I think personally that’s important that they do have contact with the WSO. The liaison with the World Service Office on that level is important. I know that in the area I live in, we attend our own, we actually have literature racks in our Drug Courts because of what the local area does to support that.
Kenny W.: I have a question. Russell, it seems you have a concern, I’m not really clear on your concern. Could you expound on your major concern here.
Russell S.: I cannot quite vocalize what my concern is, I believe at some point we need to define what the local Fellowship should be doing on our behalf.
Kenny W.: If I am understanding correctly, the local Fellowship supports, they come out and support the world representative that are participating from CA at that Drug Court. I think that the clarity just wasn’t there for you, and I wasn’t clear on what you were asking, it’s trying to get back and forth to a point, when you don’t know what the point is and…
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Russell S.: This is my point. I’ve attended Drug Court. I see the purpose and benefit of Drug Court. I have also been extremely active in my region doing public information and WSO is not always necessary at that high level of PI. Local members can deal it with quite effectively and efficiently.
Kenny W.: So what you’re saying is that you don’t feel like is that somebody from World needs to be there, just the equipment needs to be there and they can man it from that point. Russell S.: Depending on the event. The UK attend an international event that the other exhibitors are from all over the world…
Richard S.: But mainly Europe.
Russell S.: Some are from America, genuinely all over the world, they’re still dealt with locally.
Kenny W.: Do you feel like it’s a waste of time and money for somebody from World to go to let’s say for example the Canadian Drug Court or Nashville?
Russell S.: I don’t think that any Public Information is a waste of time or money and I’m all for supporting this sort of activity. It should be encouraged. Our public face should be encouraged. We should be encouraging our local members to do it.
Kenny W.: But your main concern here again is that you’re not sure if this is prudent?
Russell S.: I don’t know if it’s a prudent use of our World Service employees.
Peter D.: It depends on who goes from the areas. I’m sure there are people that are as well versed as somebody in the WSO in an area, I’m sure that could be taken into consideration. I wouldn’t send anybody with a year of sobriety and didn’t know what was going on, but if somebody from the area…is there a criteria to do it? I’ve never done it so I don’t know.
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Richard S.: One of the things that has been a threat throughout this is attendance and the attendees, and we all need to be mindful that this is the public face of Cocaine Anonymous. This is standing up in the public venue and saying I’m a representative of the 12 step program of Cocaine Anonymous. WSO is not, cannot and do not encourage anyone to step into that arena. We, as elected individuals, stand up and accept that responsibility and task. That is part of the task and duties of your trustees and the DOO, as well as a couple of other member of the office, paid employees. They don’t have to state whether or not they are, but they do work for the office, first and last name. There is a difference than telling a local area to go support this and be the public face, be there to introduce members and tell them who you are; tell this judge your story, or whatever. I’m not going to go to the extreme of it, I don’t need to. We need to be mindful of that. That is one of the criteria. These judges, parole officers, counselors, medical people, they have the business cards and they want to know who they are talking to. We introduce ourselves.
Randy G.: I don’t hear that we should discourage the local areas participation. I hear encouragement to be responsible about the participation. I know from my experience just in business with booths, shipping them off to another office, 95% comes back every time. Is there a way for a local area, do we have two or three or even one of the traditional drapes, something along those lines that local areas could request to be shipped out with a case of books for a local event to participate in beside the entire booth? Richard S.: I think this is a great thought and dialogue to have at the Board-to-Board, because we can state what we think is great, but the doers and planners and people who know the budget need to be involved with this discussion. I think it would be great to have a few of the table skirts to be able to ship out. I think it would be great to have the ability to
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have an interested area or somebody that regularly does drug court to purchase a booth. Why not? Tell them where we get it, it’s the use of the logo, they just have to make the request. I think it’s a great topic to have at the B2B rather than us making decisions or thinking we might not for shipping out.
Randy G.: I just know locally we have probably four or five a year that we set up a table and do something at some kind of recovery fair. It would be nice to have something nicer to put the books on. I don’t hear the discouragement that a local PI can’t do the business. That’s not what I hear. I think there’s a very strong concern that if that opportunity truly represents more than local interaction, that we’re very concerned about the face of it. I know we have very strict guidelines on what people can wear, because quite frankly we had a couple of girls show up to man the table and they were not dressed appropriately in the eyes of the person that asked them to come, they were both sent home. There are concerns in the local area when asked to handle local events.
Richard L.: It does fall under PI, I think we did, at one time, had a pull-up banner. We have only one or two. If the demand got higher, we could order more and keep them in inventory if the Fellowship wanted to purchase them for areas and use them for PI. We are willing to purchase if there is a need.
Brian T.: They were for sale at one time.
Russell S.: That is the discussion, isn’t it? Is there another way? I hope I haven’t been heard as saying I’m not supportive of this. Maybe the way we support and encourage our local membership is to make these things available, understanding that we won’t get a percent of it back. We get 2-3 stands and when a region or area asks for a stand, we send it out, there may be a cost implication and it may not come back.
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Richard L.: Then we need to have a budget for stuff.
Russell S.: One of the former DOO’s used to get the pop-ups, we bought a set for about $99 for the 12 steps and 12 traditions for each.
Richard L.: But we need a line item to make a budget.
Russell S.: This sort of discussion only instigates including a line item next time.
Randy G.: It’s really your responsibility to bring this back outside of bringing it up at the Board-to-Board, this is something that the office…
Richard L.: We can do it, but like I said, we don’t have permission to give stuff away. In other words, it needs to be brought up as a line item and that’s it. We got our hands tied giving away stuff for free. Except for starter kits. I encourage you to see this through.
Randy G.: Marker TEC.
Terry M.: Actually, we are excited to be of service. Not a whole lot going on. I know there are a couple of slates out there that have been addressed already. It would be kind of nice to see if anybody’s going to the UK, take care of a few interviews there. Russell did tell me that they are going to try to have one for the European region before. Hopefully that will happen. Other than that, we really don’t have a lot going on. I am excited to try and work all this out.
Joy H.: Did you get electronic resumes from the slates?
Terry M.: I have not received one resume.
Randy G.: It raises a question, do you want us to go back to each of those that made the slate and reproduce their resume in the current approved form, or whose responsibility would it be to transpose that onto the new form?
Kenny W.: Yes.
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Terry M.: Everybody should have a copy of the revised form. I think they should all be filled out so everyone’s are the same.
Randy G.: Does everyone understand that as the regional trustee, to go back to those three, four, five, whatever quantity you’ve got coming out of your region, and ask them to reproduce those?
Terry M.: The only thing that really changed was that top box. However, I would hate to put copying and pasting in our hands of someone else’s resume.
Joy H.: Did you post the new resume to the TEC group?
Terry M.: No.
Joy H.: It was approved, correct?
Terry M.: It was approved.
Joy H.: Can that be posted to the TEC group?
Terry M.: Yes I will post that to the group. When I sent out my regional reminder, I sent out the form and asked that it be form. I would feel better if the candidates checked their own boxes and cut and pasted their own form.
Kenny W.: Keep it clean.
Russell S.: We got ____ for our section of the European group, what I’ll do is pull out the
resume for them that’s there and paste. That’s where I point people when they want a form. Terry M.: I have a lot of people that are not very computer literate in my region for some reason, so pointing them somewhere, it’s a lot better to just send it to them.
Russell S.: For future trustees, Richard where do we keep them, in a folder in our Yahoo group, I should pull the old one?
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Richard S.: I will show you. I hear you start to say that you hadn’t received any resumes electronically.
Terry M.: I know there have been some slates created in the Atlantic North and the Pacific South, as well as the Southwest. I haven’t received any resumes.
Joy H.: Pacific South has not had their caucus.
Randy G.: I sent you an email with the name of the individuals, but I have not sent their resumes because I knew we were in the process of approving the new form.
Richard S.: I am concerned with the number of resumes and having the convention outside of the U.S., of the timing needed, to have all of the interviews.
Terry M.: I am concerned too. I am looking at it, we are probably not going to do a lot at the World Convention, it will be done more here.
Russell S.: When you were interviewing for the last possible five people that came in, how many did you hold at the convention and how many at the conference?
Joy H.: We did three at the convention, and…
Richard S.: I don’t have a total, I wasn’t a trustee.
Terry M.: It would have been less, TAL wasn’t being interviewed.
Richard S.: I believe there were 30.
Joy H.: I believe 20 interviews were at conference.
Brian T.: That year, Utah, they spent a whole day at the convention interviewing people.
Joy H.: Ten people in Utah, 20 at conference.
Russell S.: My concern is our workload at conference, the ability we have to give these guys the discussion they deserve, each of them.
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Richard S.: We will, I believe we have to set our expectation that we will not have as many at the world convention and that we will have to schedule really well during conference.
Terry M.: That was going to be one of the things I want to address, maybe us starting a day earlier, which would require the delegates to come in a probably day earlier for TEC.
Kenny W.: That has happened.
Terry M.: The thing is, they are still going to have to listen to the tapes, whether we start interviewing on Monday or Tuesday.
Kenny W.: TEC’s have come in on Mondays.
Richard S.: TEC delegates have come on Monday.
Kenny W.: To listen to tapes and interviews.
Joy H.: They may need to come in Sunday to be available Monday morning.
Richard S.: I was a TEC delegate and came in early to do just this.
Terry M.: I do not know when we would make this decision, but I think being fair to the delegates, we should probably give them notice. We are looking at 25-26 interviews. Plus give them time to listen to 4-5 interviews we conduct in the UK.
Randy G.: Would you be open to doing some referral work, and scheduling this, to see when we would truly have to start. We will need to see the timeframe this will actually take, and by the end of the quarterly, put it down on paper.
Joy H.: Also talk to the TAL and vote getters, and you will notice on the TEC group, the questions are combined for TAL and regional trustee. Those you just have to add an extra half hour to the interview.
Terry M.: I am unfamiliar with that.
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Joy H.: It’s combined questions of the TAL and regional trustee if they are on both slates, because the top two vote getters from each region go to the TAL slate. We also have to think about if we are going to change any questions.
Richard S.: Unless we have an issue, that’s up to them.
Joy H.: I understand, however we have that option as well. To add, delete.
Terry M.: Just so you’re aware, we have me and Kenny looking at something we’ve only been interviewed and sat through one TEC election, so changing the questions would, I hope, come from suggestions from you.
Randy G.: It is not a board responsibility; it’s your responsibility. The individuals. If the individuals have issues with the questions they can bring those to you and you can make those changes.
Joy H.: Kim and I made 4-5 changes. We decided we needed to add a few and cleaned up a lot of them.
Randy G.: They were never brought here for approval.
Joy H.: Yes, they were. We made copies of them and brought them here.
Randy G.: Let’s try to work some kind of timing out and see if we need to bring these folks in a day early.
Russell S.: Terry, you and I spoke, we left conference, are we actively seeking a non-addict trustee, the response I got was yes, the Fellowship is actively seeking a non-addict trustee.
Brian T.: We have no money for a non-addict trustee, we have a line item. It is zero dollars.
Russell S.: Whether or not we have the expenditure, we are looking for one. I asked the question “do I go back to my region” and was told yes we are. I have had a couple of
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queries. Is there a resume for them, how does that get submitted? Is that something we can get?
Terry M.: It was addressed in a referral, I believe. Through discussions and trying to find out…
Randy G.: It is in old business, establish guidelines.
Terry M.: The only thing we have written is what is in the manual, at the moment. As for a resume, there is nothing.
Russell S.: There is some conflict between the two descriptions and how it’s . In
one of the, it says it gets submitted just like any other regional trustee and the other one it says it is a position selected by the WSBT.
Terry M.: I am not prepared to answer that at this point. Can we discuss that when we get to that marker? What I put in there was what came out of the manual. In discussing this with everybody so far, there is nothing written anywhere about that process, the election of a non-addict trustee. It is something we have to address and who makes that decision, does that come from us or does that come from the conference floor?
Kenny W.: So that comes back to this question, are we looking for.
Terry M.: We are, according to our guidelines, it’s never been suspended. Every year we’ve been looking for one, nobody’s actually said we were looking.
Randy G.: I walked away from our last conversations, it was my opinion that we are looking, the position was not suspended, but we must be very responsible to that individual that because that position has gone unfilled for so long that the timeframe for its actual reinitiation or activation would have to be something to consider, the timeframe they would have to consider the budget, that if something popped up tomorrow, it could be
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acted on right away. I felt when we walked away, we are moving, if we find somebody, let’s begin this process and be responsible to them that this is going to take a little while to do because this position has been unfilled. In that regard, yes we are looking for one. But it would require some patience on their part.
Russell S.: So if any delegates from any of the regions come to me and say we would like to consider putting a name forward, we may put them forward to Terry.
Randy G.: You may take responsibility and say I would love to talk about where we are in that process and explain that situation to them.
Richard S.: And let us know.
Terry M.: We’ve actually taken steps in creating a line item, though it’s zero.
Randy G.: It’s much easier to go to the conference and say we’ve found somebody and we need to make a change to an existing budget line item that was zero when we didn’t know they existed to we really think this is the right person for the job and need to come up with the money. It’s a lot easier with a lot easier with a line item that says zero than to create a line item later.
Brian T.: We’ve changed the last three budgets.
Randy G.: Even that would take a little time.
Russell S.: I mention this, as we know, some of our membership have heard there is a position for a non-addict trustee, and they are out there trying to find us one.
Terry M.: The thing is, because it hasn’t been acted on, it’s not even been sought, so this is putting it back in the Fellowship. I believe that what happened was, we didn’t have a budget to fulfill one back then, it was that nobody stepped up to the plate. Is that accurate?
Brian T.: Then there were money issues.
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Richard S.: Then budgets were cuts. It was just a line item that was easy to fall off, because it hadn’t been used for so long.
Terry M.: That was my understanding.
Brian T.: Similar to TAL 2.
Richard S.: That is a suspended position.
Randy G.: It would take an action to reengage that position. This is just an open, unfilled position. Marker 2009.12.03 Facebook pages reflecting tradition violations.
Kenny W.: What we have, and I appreciate you guys for sending me the links. I have been filling out the form, submitting the form to Facebook. As it regards to our digital millennium copyright and they have been reacting very quickly. I mean, really. Within an hour. So, we can’t stop them from putting the stuff up. I go out a lot and look up CA and look up the logos and stuff, and I’m not finding it as much as I used to, but when I do or when I get information in, it gets dealt with. That’s all I have.
Terry M.: One of the big things that happened on CA’s birthday, that logo just popped up all over Facebook, everybody was just happy it was CA’s birthday and my experience is that most people, I just sent them a quick message and they took them down. There were a couple that just flat-out…
Kenny W.: What it was was, and if anybody’s familiar with the way that Facebook on
that, I’m not saying that there’s any out there, I just need to be aware of them. And they pop up from time to time. The issue with that one was share. You click on share and it just links it back to, but it also shares it on your page and continues on. So if they kill the main one. Richard S.: It’s still propagated.
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Kenny W.: No. Not in this case. When they kill the main one, you would go back to that individual page that linked to it and it would say that information is no longer available. It killed them all.
Richard S.: I saw it propagated.
Terry M.: It did kill a string.
Kenny W.: It depended, if they didn’t share it, they could either share it, they could either choose to share it, or copy that particular string. If they copied it, it won’t kill it. If they just clicked share it, it would stop it.
Terry M.: Back to what I was saying, it was really cool that a lot of the Fellowship really understood with just a quick message, there were only one or two that just did not.
Kenny W.: My point is that I really appreciate the guys, anybody that’s bringing forward the information regarding that and like I said, Facebook, they react really, really quickly on that one. You go out and troll the cyberspace and see something out there, please forward it to me. Please forward it to me and I will deal with it as best I can.
Brian T.: What does Facebook do exactly? Do they send a message, cut them off, how do they deal with it?
Kenny W.: Facebook, they have a digital millennium copyright infringement form. You fill it out, submit it. The follow up on it, cross check it, if it checks out, they will get rid of it. They will take the link, the __________ . Most of the time we’re concerned with is our logo. Richard S.: A link I sent you is still up. The concern is that it is not an individual posting of our logo, it is an area claiming to be Cocaine Anonymous. Cocaine Anonymous is on Facebook. It is the one I sent you from the UK, I copied Russell.
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Russell S.: It is not actually the area claiming to be CAUK, it’s claiming to be
CAUK.
Kenny W.: Here again, I may have overlooked that one. I’m not making any excuses. But if I have, can you send the chain again?
Richard S.: I am sending it right now.
Kenny W.: Thank you.
Joy H.: It’s a group, you can join it. There are tons of photos, there is one of HFC2. The banner that sits in front of Hotel California at Conference time.
Richard S.: They are passionate, they love our Fellowship. That was my feeling when I was doing your job. They are passionate.
Joy H.: I see Hotel California with a big old banner that says welcome.
Russell S.: I spoke on the call about our relationship about our relationship with social networks. I Twitter. Have you looked into what the process would be with approaching Twitter and asking them to take care of some sites?
Kenny W.: Yes and no. Yes, I’ve contacted them, I haven’t been as aggressive with them as I have been with Facebook. I do not recall receiving any feedback or response from sending them questions through their link; however, you bringing that up I will contact them again. Russell S.: It just may be a coincidence, but if you search on Twitter and type in CA, it just happens to be UK…it’s not Gang of One, it’s CAUK.
Randy G.: When approached, what does she say?
Russell S.: I don’t know.
Randy G.: We’ve never spoken with her directly.
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Russell S.: I’ve spoken to her unofficially. She denied and said I just re-tweeted it. When somebody’s grounded in good intentions, it’s quite challenging to try and educate.
Randy G.: I would entertain a motion a motion to adjourn for the evening.
Richard L.: So moved.
Peter D.: Second.
Randy G.: Motion by Richard L., second by Peter. We will close tonight at 11:54 pm and plans for tomorrow morning would be to meet at 8:00 for breakfast
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Randy G.: Good morning everyone, it is Saturday morning and we will reconvene at 9:50 am. We are at the first item of old business. Approval of minutes of 11-08 WSBT quarterly minutes, 11-08, WSBT-WSOT Board-to-Board Minutes. We do have information that may be Russell can speak to more clearly than I, our transcriber has not been able to complete those minutes due to some issues and has decided that she will not be able to complete that role and responsibility for us. We are currently without a transcriber and those minutes are not complete not in the process of being completed at the moment.
Joy H.: Motion to table 1108 WSBT quarterly minutes and 1108 WSBT-WSOT Board-to- Board Minutes.
Richard L.: Second.
Randy G.: Motion by Joy, seconded by Richard L. to table the approval of the 1108 WSBT quarterly minutes and 1108 WSBT-WSOT Board-to-Board Minutes. All those in favor? Opposed? Motion passes. Item number 2010.09.01, status of the WSO.
Richard L.: I guess we addressed it earlier when we reported on finance. The doors are open, business is doing good. Randy and I have had communications with the new chair. Everything seems to be doing well, and when we are at the Board-to-Board if there are any additional questions or anything that needs to be discussed we can do it there. I have nothing further that is not on the submitted report.
Randy G.: This item has remained on the agenda over the past few years, obviously we have had a lot of staffing issues. Not only did we have a new DOO, we had an issue with the warehouse individual. I think more along the lines of not just the financial aspect, rather a staffing standpoint, it was discussed last night that John is still assisting us in a limited capacity.
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Richard L.: Yes, and Andrew should be coming off of, I think December 13-14 the doctor’s supposed to release him of his disability and he should be back on board. We are talking about the next ten days, he should be back.
Randy G.: Are there any questions for Richard or myself regarding the WSO from a staffing standpoint that have not been addressed?
Richard S.: How long has the warehouse man been off work?
Richard L.: I do not know the exact dates. [Discussion regarding employees—redacted for California employment code, can be found at MZ000043 on tapes].
Randy G.: As this is an item of old business and not a marker, is there any reason this should remain open, or can it be closed and removed from the agenda?
Richard S.: I believe this item should remain until the staffing issues are resolved.
Richard L.: The facility remodeled the office at no charge to CA.
Randy G.: Next item 2010.12.02 ad hoc committee regarding HFC 2.
Joy H.: I requested information I have not received yet to be able to take back to the committee. Hopefully I will get that information tonight from Barry and we can then disseminate it. We all know that no one is buying HFC 2, we will have 14 pallets at the office, which is very sad. I think we need to get some sort of drive going to get people
buying books to deplete out inventory so we can it. I do not know what the solution
is, I don’t know that anyone knows what the solution is at this point.
Randy G.: I wonder if the possible solutions are the responsibility of the ad hoc committee? Joy H.: We have brought some solutions forward. I would like Brian on this committee. Brian T.: I can do that. What was the initial cost for the large purchase, per book?
Joy H.: 88 cents.
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Brian T.: We could actually afford…I don’t know what the answer is, to go down or go up. Going up, we can make a pitch, it will go back up, buy now, at this special deal. On the other hand, I see the logic sometimes, let’s get rid of some of these. Maybe $1.99; it’s a cash sale. I would rather have cash than the inventory. Just food for thought.
Richard S.: I would, from a marketing standpoint, think that making an announcement that the book is going back up to its regular price for a period of time would serve the business aspect of Cocaine Anonymous better rather than discounting it again. Then people are just waiting for another discount. Making an announcement that the price is going back up in 90 days is maybe something to consider. I do not know that I have the answer; it is just a thought from a business perspective. Maybe in nine months do another discount. An announcement that the price is increasing to its regular price could be the answer.
Richard L.: I totally understand that we need to eliminate these books. We keep cutting the price, telling people almost like we have this bad product we have to get rid of, sometimes that does reverse psychology and doesn’t move anything at all. I have to kind of agree with Richard on it. I don’t know the answer, I’m just playing devil’s advocate here. Say the price is going up, maybe that might light a fire and make them want to try and get the book now. However, the European region just bought a big shipment recently, I don’t know that they are ready to purchase again. We are not seeing a lot of large orders coming out of the United States, that is the problem. I don’t want to keep seeing it devalued. We have already made our money back on the book. Are we just going to give them away at one point, I don’t have the answer either.
Russell S.: When Richard was talking about no further discounts ____________, I think
it’s a healthy view that if we continue to discount, it sends a message it send out, the value
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it puts on them, also the resentment it may cause for areas that recently just purchased books at a higher price. There is a lot to be gained from at least putting the price back up to normal.
Peter D.: Are we allowed, can we call recovery homes, treatment centers, places like Hazelden and try and sell them the book, make deals with them? Can we do that?
Randy G.: For the price that is available to our Fellowship?
Peter D.: You know, if somebody wants to buy ten cases, we can discount it a little bit. What are the parameters? Can we market this book? I have two friends in San Diego, these two girls I know, who work online, they telephone, they’re really good on the telephone, they sell appointments to timeshares, they sell all this stuff. If I wanted to ask them to start calling up recovery homes and treatment centers and people that sell books like Hazelden, can we do that?
Richard S.: As volunteers going into the office under the DOO, the answer would be yes, they can reach out and communicate and make calls.
Peter D.: From San Diego?
Richard S.: No, it would have to be all under our business office, as we could not call a
business facility. All of the business functions come out of our WSO. It would have to be
something that the WSOB came to a decision on, and Linda carried out. The business aspect of it is that our office may absolutely phone Hazelden and inform them that, if the decision is that we are putting the price back to the original selling price, there is a window right now that they may purchase the book at a discounted price. One thing Randy alluded to was that a decision was made that we sell the book for the same price our Fellowship
purchases it for, that is what we believe is being fair. If Hazelden is called by our office and
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is told at this point in time that our book drive is ending, that would be a valid solicitation from our office and may be something to look into and a good idea.
Peter D.: Would we be able to may be able to hire somebody, without paying them, working on a commission only to get on the phone and call people?
Richard S.: No. That is my belief. I would like to hear other people’s feedback on that.
Peter D.: Why?
Russell S.: It is attraction rather than promotion, it needs to be a line of, we are ,
we have some literature for sale. I would feel uncomfortable if I thought the Fellowship was calling around asking if people were interested in some books. I exaggerate the sales pitch, we are going into areas of service where we are focusing on selling books rather than carrying the message.
Peter D.: I mean, this would be the treatment centers, places like Hazelden that buy books to resell.
Russell S.: I think maybe one of the solutions is getting into our membership. There was an area in the European region a few years ago that did a book drive in order to put books into libraries. It worked very well. We asked for members to donate the cost of a book so the local PI committee could mail them out to a library. We sold about, I think, 1,000 books. Is there any way we could explore the benefits of doing that on a worldwide level?
Richard L.: To answer Peter’s question, getting back on that, no we cannot give someone a commissioned job to go out and do sales. We do not solicit in this Fellowship, or pay anybody. It is a tradition violation. Our Fellowship is a program of attraction not promotion and this is promotion. Anything related to sales comes directly from the WSO and the DOO. We do not ever solicit people. We can go to existing consumers and let them know that
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books are available or PI and H&I panels and let them know books are available to purchase. We can announce it within the Fellowship.
Peter D.: I don’t think selling the book to Hazelden, we’re not promoting… attraction/promotion, I believe deals with recovery. Selling our book to a place that’s going to resell it to other people in recovery, that’s promotion. We promote our conventions, why can’t we promote to people who resell our books, the book?
Richard L.: We can to our Fellowship.
Peter D.: Hazelden’s not our Fellowship. It’s an institution that sells books. Is there Amazon, is that a, I’m just trying to figure out how to get the books sold without violating traditions and I’m just asking questions cause I don’t know the answers to them, so I was always told the best way is to ask, and I think promotion as attraction has to do with recovery aspect of the business of selling the books. How can we sell book and take care of the financial responsibilities and get the books gone without violating traditions? Randy G.: I don’t believe we should move the price of the book at all. Sometimes I get concerned, we talk about depleting the inventory so we can move forward. Why? These books are all paid for. We will sell them when we sell them. Anything we bring in is revenue. The ideas of how to sell more of the books, better market to our Fellowship, organize book drives some of them are fantastic. There is no “move forward.” Are we talking about placing another order so we have more books? The books are in there and the only cost we have right now is the storage of the books. They are being warehoused in a facility that has an established rent and is contracted for a few years. I think its time to move on and the book can remain where the price is, we can engage in some contractual relationships, which can remove us from the idea that we do have some historical past with
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some organizations that purchase to resell from an contractual relationship. I think reaching out to treatment centers to do this; it’s not as if we are calling J C Penney to sell our extra t-shirts. At some point in time there could be legitimate avenues that we have contractually established to resell our book on line. Amazon for example can be explored. The statement “we need to deplete inventory,” I do not understand. I believe to a certain degree there is a big pink elephant in the middle of the room that we have alluded to a few times in that the book is going to sell at this point in time as quickly as people buy it, there is some concern regarding the quality of the book that has kept it from being attractive to the level that we would like. That happens in business all the time and it is recognized; you recover the resources, and move on. I believe the ad hoc committee does need to be proactive in either telling us they have some ideas and possible solutions, or it will sit on the shelf to be solved. I feel we are starting to circle in this and efforts can best be put forward in another, perhaps better direction.
Richard S.: Is it the consensus of this Board to support leaving the price point where it is?
Joy H.: I believe we could raise it a dollar and still get the same orders we are getting. It would increase our income a bit.
Richard S.: I bring this back up is it sounds as if we are moving off-topic.
Joy H.: I do not believe sales will drop. We could make an extra $1,000 a month.
Richard S.: I would support a discussion of this at the Board-to-Board, and whatever is mutually agreed upon would be a good decision. Book sales and pricing are a joint decision.
Brian T.: My belief is that we wanted to deplete the current inventory because it has How It Works in it. I understand that it is paid for. My question is what is the primary reason for moving those books?
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Richard S.: This has been a process that Joy, Randy, Robert, and me have been on since my first year. When the books were being stickered, absolutely there was an interest in moving the stickered books in inventory. That was a thought and concern with the decision. Not to sticker it goes back to a product and we are letting them roll out as best we can rather than cut them down to breaking even to get rid of them. The thought remains of once they’re gone, preparing the next ordering. We will examine the history of the order size. It might look different by then. My opinion and feeling at this point is that it is not so much as a rush to move, it is still a viable product, it is no longer stickered in the US. The purpose is not to use the term get rid of or deplete, rather looking for avenues to sell and generate revenue with a product we have with no cost involved. Basically we need to look at this positively as a product we have, that we have invested in and generate revenue.
Russell S.: What are we selling a month in the way of books?
Joy H.: I asked for all of that information and I have not received that in writing. Verbally I am told it is approximately 1,000 books per month.
Russell S.: That is more than I expected.
Joy H.: I believe there are 14,000, that is just a guess.
Richard S.: That is what I’m also thinking, based on what we’ve sold, where we are.
Randy G.: Because we make the statement often, that we never should have never bought so many. Obviously that decision seemed pretty bold today, in hindsight. If the price point of 88 cents per book was dependent on an order that large, let’s allow at least, the consideration of the individuals that made the decision and consider that we do not have all of the information, we only have historical perspective that they have not sold as quickly
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as we thought they would. And learn from it. Any other questions? This will remain in old business. Next item 2011.03.01, European Fulfillment Facility.
Russell S.: There is an example of some real orders that were placed, I am using them as a benchmark of collating the cost for the fulfillment facility and what they would charge us to handle us to handle and ship those out and also the UK Royal Mail, what they would charge for those on weight for both on local and international posting in Europe. That information has started to come in, I just have not had the opportunity to put it together in an way that is easy to digest. It will be ready at the next quarterly.
Richard S.: Can this be removed from this agenda?
Randy G.: With no objection, it will be removed from our agenda as old business. Hearing none, next item, 2011.04.03, assembly and the Edmonton Hope Faith and Courage site.
Terry M.: We have taken no action at all on this. We are waiting for something from Bob Campbell and never received it.
Peter D.: Did he send you a copy?
Terry M.: No.
Peter D.: He said he was talking to you, I sent him a copy.
Terry M.: I have not spoken to Bob.
Peter D.: I guess we’ll have to talk to him this afternoon. I thought you were in contact with him.
Terry M.: I had been, at our last conference call you were the one that was going to talk to him.
Peter D.: I did, and he sent me the letter for him, and then I thought you were talking to him so there was a little miscommunication there.
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Terry M.: On our last conference call, we discussed that you were going to talk to him about both.
Peter D.: And I did.
Randy G.: I would like to readdress this after we speak to Bob.
Brian T.: What is the Edmonton Hope Faith and Courage Society?
Terry M.: They have a clubhouse open in Edmonton, Canada and that is the name of it. They are using our copyright.
Richard L.: I would like to reiterate on what Peter said, when you speak to Bob about this, he talked to the trademark attorney. If we send something to these people, we have to follow up on it, if we don’t follow up, we have no recourse. So this is time sensitive, we are technically serving them with papers. We have to decide if we are going after them aggressively or not. It will come back to us as a board of trustees, do we want to do this or not. It may have to be handled internationally in this case. We will have to then have to deal with an attorney, I believe someone on the board had a recommendation in Canada to deal with it, as it is outside our jurisdiction.
Terry M.: I received an email from the Edmonton area, through the office. It’s interesting that this email pertains to that club, which is now dividing the Fellowship up there. I will forward the email, I have not responded.
Peter D.: I hope you all realize it is going to cost us money to protect our trademark. If we don’t do anything than we lose it and all the money we’ve spent just goes out the window. I think maybe finance needs to sit down and look at a line item of money to be there to protect us, because once you start writing letters, who know what, if they get an attorney and we got to get an attorney. It’s something that we have to do. We don’t really have a
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choice if somebody’s violating our trademark, if we don’t protect it, we automatically lose it, then all the money we’ve spent o trademark and copyright goes out the window and I don’t know if there’s a line item in the budget for trademark protection, copyright. I think that should be addressed in the near future so there is, cause it’s going to happen. Someone’s going to say, here’s my attorney, here’s a letter, and then it’s back to the attorneys. And you know what happens when they get involved. Maybe down the road we might need to talk to whoever we need to talk to. Finance committee or something about putting in a line item about trademark, copyright protection fees.
Richard L.: Defense costs.
Randy G.: Next item 2011.05.11, CAWS 2012 checking account emergency guidelines for petty cash account.
Russell S.: The guidelines we put together in Arizona seem to be working well. Regular bank statements get sent forward. I do try and forward them out to you when I receive
them. I know they go to the office on a monthly basis. When we picked the _________,
the money is forwarded, ____________ I’m not sure what we’re going to do about this
account as to when it gets closed either or before or directly after, but as all you’re aware it’s called the 2012 petty cash account, it’s actually Jackie’s, mine, and Nick’s bank account. We don’t really have the authority, we can ask for it to be closed but we cannot physically close this account so maybe it need to be discussed as to when we are going to start warming ourselves up to start closing it. I particularly do not want my name on this bank account; it’s being kept as empty as possible. The guidelines are working very well.
Richard L.: The treasurer’s reports are really excellent; Nick is doing a fantastic job.
Russell S.: Traditionally, when does a petty cash account get closed?
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Richard S.: After the event. I support your concern and I think once the appropriate account is in place, 30 days would be a thought. Another topic at the B2B when the treasurer, Linda and you are all present, setting a hopeful date of when the proper account is in place, to get that closed. Or at least when everyone is on site for the convention.
Russell S.: As much as I would like to know when it’s going to be closed, I would not want to close it prematurely, as the use of the account is for the petty cash, small expenses and committee expenses leading up to the convention. Things that may not necessarily need the spending request guideline. These are immediate payment-type requests, mostly minor. Not three-bid payments.
Randy G.: Could there be any consideration that once the general checking account is established, I don’t think it was ever designed to handle both duties of both general and petty cash; however the current cash handling guidelines, emergency guidelines, that are set up for that up for that account, that singly could be reduced to a petty cash-type opportunity and at least the volume of dollars that would be available?
Russell S.: As for guidelines, bringing it back to $500?
Randy G.: To the petty cash that any other convention would have in the secondary account.
Richard L.: Or maybe once this has all been established, we can talk to the bank and open a secondary account. Your account is technically an emergency account. We would also love to get all your names out of there and any financial responsibility off of that account. It is something we would definitely support.
Richard S.: I think it’s different accepting the three different individuals that volunteered to have their names on the account rather than this organization requesting that they
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continue to keep their names on the account. We appreciate your volunteering that, we would like to be able to get your names off of the account that business transactions are moving through. I would still support 30 days following the business account being established that your account be closed.
Randy G.: As this is an emergency guideline, I believe we are best served leaving this line item open as old business until we are not actively participating in an emergency process. Any other questions? Item 2011.08.02, establish guidelines regarding non-addict trustee.
Terry M.: I sent something out of the manual just a moment ago. There are also qualifications in a different spot. I did not send that segment. I think this will be a continued work in progress unless someone has something else they want to add. The qualifications are in the manual.
Randy G.: I would like to have some clarification on the true goal of this. Is it to rewrite and publish expanded information, to address the election procedure, to identify that this position as a trustee is reimbursed differently? I would like to be clear as to what exactly the goal of this agenda item is.
Terry M.: The original question, I believe, was, where do they come from. Am I correct?
How do we process a non-addict trustee?
Russell S.: And how do we elect them?
Terry M.: That’s where the stalemate is, we can find no information on how we elect one, other than this process.
Russell S.: I would like to look at the break as to where I’ve seen it, within some CA guidelines somewhere it says that a non-addict trustee is the only member of the board that is selected by his peers.
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Terry M.: That is not what it says right here. This says the trustee election committee will make the selection from the conference-approved slate. Which means the non-addict trustee goes before the TEC.
Richard S.: Would it suffice if you find that piece, that it is reworded to state that it goes to the same TEC process as other members?
Russell S.: Yes.
Terry M.: I could not find that.
Richard S.: It could be in a guideline somewhere, not the manual. Would that suffice?
Russell S.: Yes.
Terry M.: I think the other part of that question was is what service resume form do they fill out, if they fill out any?
Russell S.: As I understand it, from the research I’ve done, the service manual says the benefits of non-addict trustees and specific roles, and if we find ourselves in a long-winded legal issue, we look for a legal person. We had a great discussion on Drug Court and the faces of Cocaine Anonymous. Are we moving into an area where we need someone who could be a little more proactive around PI for us? I think it’s not generic, let’s not just get anyone to do a specific task or duty. It is what the Fellowship requires at the time.
Terry M.: According to the manual, we are careful in selecting professionals in the areas we need.
Brian T.: Last time we had a non-addict trustee was the late 90’s, is that correct?
Joy H.: Mid 90’s, it wasn’t an addict, when I was on the board there was a non-addict…
Brian T.: Was it a priest?
Joy H.: Correct.
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Brian T.: Does anyone remember how we elected that person?
Randy G.: At that time all trustees were elected by trustees.
Richard S.: It was more an adoption.
Randy G.: It was pre-TEC.
Terry M.: Under our description, WSBT may consist of both addicts and non-addicts as may be needed for professional areas of expertise to broaden our perspective. There is some kind of statement in there.
Richard S.: My only thought that came up through all of this looking at everything is that I did not see a term limit anywhere on a non-addict trustee and I believe that should be put into place in our documentation both for our safeguards and for theirs, not holding anyone hostage, nor being held hostage. That is the only think I think should be adapted, is that the term limit needs definition.
Randy G.: In the creation of these guidelines, could they be considered more than just internal to the WSBT, but potential referrals that would go to the Conference for some further clarification and definition for the manual itself.
Richard S.: I think something like adding a term limit to the non-addict trustee definition should absolutely go to the conference floor.
Randy G.: At this point in time, the three people assigned, or who have volunteered to this agenda item, please take these items into consideration and come forward with some referrals, internal guidelines. I don’t believe it’s anyone else’s role to do this, except ours. Terry M.: I am not really familiar with this process, with respect to creating internal guidelines, my head went to the good old boy society of picking and choosing.
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Randy G.: I am only attempting to clarify what potentially would modify the manual and therefore have to be presented to the conference or S&B regarding change. We have many documents considered to be internal guidelines of the WSBT regarding regional trustee responsibilities, for example the way we are reimbursed. I believe that also must be addressed from a non-addict trustee standpoint there are a lot of things that we do as a TAL or regional trustees that may or may not be responsibilities of a non-addict trustee and things we would ask of a non-addict trustee that are not responsibilities of the roles we have. I think there are two sets of documents that have to come from this effort. One to potentially create changes or modifications to the manual and another, an internal guideline.
Russell S.: In the AA service manual it talks a lot about the different election procedures
that a non-alcoholic trustee __________differently, and that’s maybe where I’ve picked
up that a non-addict trustee is elected by the trustees; but that it says here that a non¬alcoholic trustee is selected by the board itself because they specifically know what it is they are looking for at that time. I will just check.
Terry M.: That’s one of those things, is that a direction we want to go? Because we know what’s best suited or is that something we want the conference to decide: what direction we want to go?
Russell S.: May I respond to that? I actually do believe that this board, at time, will know, dare I say, better than the conference, as to what we need specifically in the way of a non¬addict trustee. That’s not to say that the conference may also ask us “hey guys, we would like us to move further, deeper into the realms of public information or _________, can
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he be on this _______________or something. I think this board knows where we need
specifically, a copyright lawyer on board for a couple of years while we talk something out. Richard S.: It keeps ringing through, getting it out to the Fellowship, getting submissions and the process like every other time, will reveal what is appropriate and best and we will be able to fill this position and that will be best for the Fellowship and then see how it works with whatever board is there at the time and I believe this is a point in our smaller Fellowship that the process that we currently have in place for our other TEC candidates would work. Rather than having the whole separate process, harvesting candidates from the Fellowship and I believe that we are either going to request what we need, seek what we need, and those candidates will be there. The process we currently use would suit our Fellowship best and our board, and at times the limited amount of time we have for interviews to continue with the TEC process in place for that position as well. Rather than get sidetracked on a whole different process, move forward on the current process.
Randy G.: Just to add a note, it was interesting when Richard and I were at the Southwest Regional Convention and the discussion regarding the non-addict trustee came up, it spurred a lot of hallway after the assembly and I listened for a half an hour from someone who spoke very passionately and intelligently to the fact that she believed that the possible non-addict trustee she had in mind was very well known and respected in the world of treatment facilities and that the insight an individual like that could bring out Fellowship and potentially engage us to better serve the drug addict in recovery would be invaluable. I think we, we need somebody who has finance, or we need somebody who has real spiritual guidance that they can lend us or we need somebody that’s got something that out of the blue came a lady who opened my eyes to another potential quality that this individual
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could bring, so it was just kind of interesting that I always have these three or fours areas of expertise that I think fit best, then here, out of the blue, came someone that just spoke very well as to why this person would be fantastic for this Fellowship.
Brian T.: I think Russell, or AA World Service has some merit. My question is, let’s say we put this out to the Fellowship, and get 30 nominees. Are 30 people going to be interviewed or will a slate be presented? Who will chose that slate?
Randy G.: That is exactly what all of this is about. You are more than welcome to be a part of this new process.
Brian T.: No problem.
Russell S.: Whatever our understanding of this position is, I think we all have an acceptance that there is a huge benefit to having a non-addict trustee for whatever individual or shared reasons or beliefs we have. It’s something we should move forward with.
Richard S.: I have to say it warms my heart because three years ago when I started bringing this up, it really warms my heart that we’re here.
Randy G.: We look forward to feedback on this action item in the future. At this point in time we will take a short break. It is 1114 am on Saturday.
Joy H.: I make a motion to suspend the rules to consider items out of order.
Richard L.: Second.
Randy G.: Motion by Joy to suspend the rules to take items out or order, seconded by
Richard L. All those in favor? Opposed? Motion passes.
Joy H.: I make a motion to conduct new business ahead of correspondence responses from the Fellowship and outstanding referrals.
Richard L.: Second.
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Randy G.: Motion to move the move the agenda to new business ahead of correspondence responses from the Fellowship and outstanding referrals. All those in favor? Opposed? Motion passes. That brings us to new business item 2011.10.01, assistant secretary election. Does anyone have access to the assistant secretary guidelines, duties, responsibilities? Ok, I have it. The roles and responsibilities of the WSBT assistant secretary. 1. Requires a working knowledge of Robert’s Rules of Order, the 12 traditions, the 12 concepts, and the AA and CA service manuals. Good organizational skills and attention to detail are also recommended. 2. Must have access to and a working knowledge of Microsoft Word software. 3. Assist in performing the responsibilities of secretary as outlined in the trustee email guidelines. 4. Become knowledgeable as how the secretary works with the recording secretary for the WSBT quarterly board meetings to answer questions about format and procedure, works with said recording secretary and WSBT chair on the timely delivery of the draft minutes of all WSBT quarterly for approval by the WSBT. Once the first draft of the minutes has been received from the recording secretary, the WSBT secretary will review it, make any necessary formatting corrections and attach all relevant reports before circulating the draft to the rest of the WSBT for review. 5. Attends and records all minutes of all WSBT conference calls as a back up to the secretary. 6. Receives and reviews all e-mail communications addressed to the WSBT via the ca.org website and replies to email questions and concerns from the Fellowship. When uncertain as to the nature of the email’s ownership, the assistant secretary will consult with the WSBT chair and will forward the email to the appropriate conference committees, the WSO or WSOB with a cc to the WSOT, if not appropriate for the WSBT. All email to be answered by the WSBT will receive an immediate acknowledgement including commitment of a
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response by the WSBT within 30 days of receipt. If approving response is going to take longer than 30 days, the secretary will send a note of explanation. Sends out correspondence approved by the WSBT immediately following approval unless otherwise directed by the chair. 8. Assist the secretary in working with the WSBT chair and vice-chair to ensure that materials are submitted to the WSO in a timely manner for all delegate mailings. Deadline for delivery materials are as follows: Spring mailing, March 1; SR-14 mailing, June 1; Fall mailing, November 1, usually extended to December 1. 9. Assist the secretary in working with the WSBT chair and vice-chair to draft the WSBT’s opening conference report to which will be attached the report from each trustee summarizing work performed during the past year and the WSBT’s main conference report, which includes all motions and responses to referrals. Drafts of both reports should be completed and posted for review at least a week in advance of the August quarterly meeting.
Not only for our new trustee, but to remind us it was determined that the workload of the current trustee secretary was a heavy one and that the opportunity to create a role and responsibility for an assistant secretary to become familiar with those processes to make a possible transition to that role in the future would be easier for them. It does take on the responsibility of solely being responsible for managing the correspondence from the Fellowship and to truly lighten the burden of the current secretary. This position is not dependent on anything more than the nominations and voting process I would like us to engage in.
Richard S.: I would like to also consider that four of our current trustees are rotating out and really should not accept any position like this.
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Russell S.: I would be willing to help whoever did, if they did not have the sufficient skills to ________________.
Richard L.: I would hate to see Russell to be stuck for this whole year, I know come September, there will be five new faces, at that time the position would be open. Of course, there will be a secretary position available as well.
Randy G.: From a point of order, this position is only up to the upcoming conference, to complete this current year. It would not preclude anyone from being elected from any future role or responsibility in any future conference.
Richard S.: I would like to share my experience on this. It’s a big task, it has gotten larger with more online business, and more business is conducted online. It has grown, and I believe it is necessary to assist your current secretary. It’s absolutely not a pigeonhole. You have five new faces coming in this September and the fact is, one of them could be absolutely perfect for secretary, assistant secretary, anything. That should be considered. Really, what I would hope all of you will do is look and see how we can help our current board and secretary. Just try, the same as any other position.
Russell S.: As I understand it, the elections within the board, we will be selecting our secretary prior to the new guys coming on, so if that’s going to be the case then, we cannot make a choice from the new people, as they won’t join us until after we meet and have elected a secretary. Though I only shadowed Richard, so to speak for a few months, it was a great insight into the role. I didn’t do much to support him, but support is required.
Joy H.: I nominate Brian T.
Brian T.: I do not have the computer skills necessary.
Russell S.: I can help you.
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Brian T.: You don’t understand, I really do not have the skills necessary. I’m good with opening accounts.
Richard S.: Terry, would you accept a nomination?
Terry M.: Sure, why not?
Richard S.: Thank you.
Randy G.: It’s up to any of the board members, so it would include the WST and the WSOT as well. Essentially we have five individuals that are available for this election.
Russell S.: Well here, we have 9, it’s just…common sense steers towards what Richard is saying, those of you who are leaving, it may be a wasted opportunity for us to select those rotating out in September.
Richard S.: It is an excellent opportunity to select one of you moving forward.
Kenny W.: I don’t agree with that, a wasted opportunity statement.
Richard S.: Do you agree with mine, that it is a good opportunity, for those of you going forward to support one another?
Kenny W.: No, that’s not what I was speaking to. I was more or less speaking to the wasted opportunity. In that I recall when it was not an official position, however you were in a position of secretary in training, SIT, but you were not the secretary, you weren’t even, you were a shadow. So for someone even to take that position that would be rolling off, somebody to shadow that person even, or the assistant person, or the secretary so that they could become familiar with the process. This position is actually being created to take the load off of the current secretary’s position.
Richard S.: To assist with the load.
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Kenny W.: Same difference. Share the responsibility of the secretary’s position. Is it assistant secretary or co-secretary?
Randy G.: It is an assistant secretary in that it does have assistance-type roles, but it has some individual roles specific to that position in the correspondence. The secretary would no longer be responsible for that and would no longer get assistance from someone to help, but that assistant secretary is truly, solely responsible for handling the correspondence. This position does have some roles specific to the position. It is an assistant secretary position versus a secretary in training, it would not preclude anyone from the board, whether they are rotating off or not to participate in that role. There are quite obviously some things involved with learning a process that could be carried forward that would be lost if an individual is elected, knowingly rotating off the board.
Kenny W.: Thanks for clarifying that. I was just speaking to, I don’t think it would be a waste or a loss, that’s all I’m speaking to.
Joy H.: Point of information…are we still in the nomination process? Or are we discussing the guidelines we passed.
Randy G.: We have a quasi-nomination and acceptance of Terry. From discussion, it may be prudent to ask Brian if he would reconsider the nomination as well.
Brian T.: I can take it, but its not a good idea, I don’t have the skills available to me. Whether I can be trained or not, the reality is someone should know what they’re doing and have the tools to be able to do it. Maybe I can learn it, I do not think it’s in the best interest of the board.
Randy G.: Any other nominations?
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Richard L.: I am not volunteering, as I service two boards and I couldn’t do it anymore. I was just going to say something to Brian, I served on the World Service Board as the secretary and I do not type. It’s two finger.
Brian T.: I can type, that’s not the problem.
Richard L.: I would take the agenda, and…I have watched Richard, he henpecks too. It’s just assisting them, it’s not taking over the full lead. I would say don’t be afraid to try it. If you do feel you’re overwhelmed, you can say later on, I’m overwhelmed. I wouldn’t be afraid to throw your hat in the ring there. You have 3-3/4 years to go. Not to throw you under the bus, but to be a part of.
Joy H.: I move that nominations be closed.
Peter D.: Second.
Randy G.: There is a motion to close nominations, by Joy, seconded by Peter. All those in favor? Opposed? Motion passes. Welcome back Terry. I want to thank you. Terry was elected into the assistant secretary position. With your current role as the TEC chair and the willingness to step up to the plate and handle some of the duties for this board, I really do thank you.
Russell S.: I will get Terry up to speed and I am aware of the TEC stuff, it is a two-way support system. Holler when you’re a bit snowed under, we will support each other.
Terry M.: We will get it done.
Randy G.: Understanding that the next item in the agenda might be best handled after the completion of another, I would entertain.
Richard S.: Motion to hear an item of business out of order.
Joy H.: Second.
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Randy G.: Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Opposed? Motion passes.
Joy H.: Motion to take item 2011.12.01 out of order.
Richard S.: Second.
Randy G.: Motion to take 2011.12.01, minutes and requirements, made by Joy, seconded by Richard S. Hearing no discussion, all those in favor? Opposed? Motion passes. Item under discussion at this time is 2011.12.01, minutes-requirements. I know Russell has something he would like to share as well. To let you know, there has been some communication between Teresa and myself, there has been discussion regarding, I think historically attendance for me at the conference, I have heard numerous times spoken from the floor that there were legal requirements by the State of California regarding our corporation that transcribed minutes from the quarterlies, from the Board-to-Boards and from the conference were a state law requirement. There has been some determination and some effort put to verify that. What we have received from that effort is that the state requires that the WSBT quarterly minutes are recorded, the WSBT/WSOB minutes are recorded, but there is no state law requiring its word-for-word transcription. Further, minutes are only provided by request and recording be archived and kept at the WSO. There’s always been a spiritual nature, and this is speaking in general to what we will speak of at the Board-to- Board, there is a more spiritual nature in having our minutes transcribed of conference, but quite frankly, that would be more of a desire to give the Fellowship all of the information from a word for word perspective. Conference is approximately $2,500 a year if I am not mistaken for transcription. We spend $300 every quarter, so $1,200 a year as the WSBT/WSOB for our quarterly meetings and discussion has been brought forward, is that the best use of our funds? Can we provide minutes to our Fellowship does inform them to
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the actions of the WSBT in our quarterly meetings and forego the actual cost and effort of word for word transcription? What are the true requirement from a legal aspect, what are they from a spiritual aspect? Do we have the ability to provide minutes that accurately define what we do? Do we have, and, I’m going to leave the conference question off the table for the moment. Right now, this about the WSBT and some information, discussion, and possible decisions. The transcription position has been very difficult to fill. It has been difficult to hold. I think there are some legitimate concerns that have been expressed by those that have handled the role in the past that not only $300 to do each quarterly, inclusive of the WSBT quarterly minutes and the WSBT/WSOB Board-to-Board meetings may be short of what would be truly be necessary to have them done correctly or very difficult to do for that amount of money. To have them done professionally would cost quite a bit more than how we have tried to handle it in the past. I do not have any goal except to bring this forward. We are currently without a transcriber, and we have a need to address this. I wanted to bring it forward as an agenda item, it so happened Russell asked me to post it about an hour within when I was going to put it on the agenda.
Russell S.: You’ve said most of what I wanted to say. I have made my own inquiries about it. I think it is valid that we review the spiritual and legal requirements. I wouldn’t want to just dismiss, just because we don’t legally need to provide transcripts, therefore let’s not do it. I see the opportunity to provide our members with minutes more effectively if we do not depend on transcripts, whether or not that would satisfy our members, we will soon find out. I was confused as to what the requirements were, so I made my own inquiries and came up with the same answers as Randy did.
Richard S.: Was an inquiry made to the Attorney General of California?
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Richard S.: I believe we would need that clarification from the Attorney General, because those laws change and I would like to have that response in writing to cover us. At one point in time it was a requirement, I believe. I believe then, that five years later it was not. In order to protect our organization, I believe we should ask for a written response from the California Attorney General, where we are registered to protect the Fellowship. I believe if we are going to change the way we are communicating with the Fellowship, that should be done at the conference and let them know so we get the feedback. We could do both, provide transcribed minutes and/or provide very detailed notes. I believe this is a decision we should get feedback from the conference we are serving. My hope is that we ask them how they would like to be communicated with rather than tell them how we should be communicating.
Richard L.: I concur with Richard, I think the WSO should follow up on that, we still record so we have it recorded, we can make copies. Forgive me for saying this, in the old days, we used to bring a stenographer in an do that. It was never sent to the Fellowship, but we sent records of it, the minutes were still sent out to the Fellowship. Eventually it changed, they started sending them out. I would think it’s probably a good way of doing it. We have everything recorded, we can make copies of everything. We can keep a copy onsite and one offsite, just in case, depending on what the law requires and what the Fellowship wants to have. I’m all for that.
Peter D.: I agree with Richard. I think it’s the Department of Corporations of California that will tell you what to do as far as the minutes, because I just formed a corporation, it’s
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required you have one meeting a year in the book in the minutes of what your organization meeting is. All the other meetings, I don’t know, a non-profit, I’m not sure.
Richard S.: It changes with corporations, that is why I asked that we check with the Attorney General.
Peter D.: Does the Fellowship know how much we spend for minutes? How many of them request copies? Where does that go to, the office? Do they request cd’s, have they been requesting typewritten minutes of our meetings? Is there a demand for it? If it’s not legal, do they want, would they be willing to pay $5,000 for the minutes? Do they know how much it costs? It is fairly pricey and how do we get it out to them. When they call, who do they talk to? What is that procedure?
Randy G.: As a point of order, I can tell you what my discussions were with Tom. I asked him some questions. He did not recall during his term at the WSOB ever getting a request from a member of the Fellowship for the transcribed minutes of the conference, that people could not get an answer from the dailies. That is with respect to the conference. As far as the WSBT, our minutes have always been posted to the Fellowship as transcribed. The go out in the mailings.
Russell S.: Only the last few years.
Randy G.: That is only what I know about, once that was the procedure that the WSBT began, while Kim was secretary, and then as chair, the minutes that went out to the Fellowship were the actual transcribed, approved minutes of this meeting. When that happened, there was again, never a response or question from any individual member of the Fellowship for that transcription.
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Terry M.: I believe a lot of the reason that started was a transparency issue about what’s going on in our board, quarterly meetings. I think that was actually what was brought up on the conference floor. It was “what’s going on in that room…” it was more about transparency, that is why they were mailed to the delegates. I know there are a few delegates that do read every single word in our transcribed minutes.
Peter D.: It’s important to keep transparency there, but what does the conference want, what do the people want? Do they want expensive transcribed minutes? We should give them what they ask for, but if they’re not using it, not wanting it and we do it and it just sits there, then the expense is crazy. I don’t know, is that expensive? We have to be transparent, did we ask them what they want? Do you ask them, do you want transcribed minutes, you want records, what do you…since it’s their money and it’s their Fellowship. Just to do them and let it sit and spend all that money and nobody uses them, that’s a waste on our part, since we’re the financial overseers.
Randy G.: If at any point in time, I believe the issue of transparency could be absolutely addressed, we are not withholding any of this information. It’s the cost of the publication of this information that is in question. These meetings, in my opinion of what we’ve been told, are the legal requirements. The WSBT quarterly, the Board-to-Board meetings are to be recorded and that recording would not only be kept at the office, keep it in the cloud, somehow archived in the best way we choose to. At any point in time those transcripts are 100% available to any member of the Fellowship. If someone was to read the minutes and say “I really don’t understand this motion, how did the board of trustees come to this decision?” at that point in time they would have absolute access to request that information and that recording could be pulled up in either a .wav file or that piece of business sent to
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them. There are a lot of different ways to send information. It could be made available, it’s not to be kept from anyone. This is truly about the cost of the publication. I want to make certain these issues remain separate. Recording still takes place, and is still available to the Fellowship as requested.
Brian T.: First, as a matter of record, you can order a transcript on a literature form for the conference. I did in ’97-99 for purposes of finance committee. I don’t know how frequently that gets done. If someone is interested in getting this, they’re also going to get an unedited transcript. Normal procedure is you get transcripts, it gets edited and then goes out to the Fellowship. Is that correct?
Randy G.: Yes.
Brian T.: If we are talking about letting the Fellowship decide whether they want it or not, then we are talking about waiting until next conference. If that is the case we still need a transcriber between now and then.
Richard S.: As I said in my first statement, I don’t believe we should make any changes like that until we can bring it to conference. I believe we should continue status quo and make sure we are delivering the information the Fellowship is used to getting. At conference, we can then allow them, even give them a precursor in the May-June mailing, let them know this is an item of interest and maybe the groups can be informed, an SR-14 as it affects the business we are doing. I believe that would be the best plan of action and no action to inform the Fellowship of our thoughts. Ask for their feedback and proceed on that rather than take any action that could be perceived as withholding or why now, or it’s expensive, or our 7th tradition is paying for it and we want it.
Peter D.: How much is a regular transcriber for these minutes here?
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Randy G. We are paying $300.
Joy H.: It’s cheap.
Randy G.: We are paying an individual wiling to, a volunteer in essence, $300 for each quarterly set done. The WSBT quarterly and the Board-to-Board. Professionally done, the entire conference, from open to close is $2,500.
Peter D.: What would they charge for this, $500-600?
Joy H.: We had that.
Richard S.: We had a range anywhere from high $300’s up to just under $500.
Peter D.: So obviously the $300 deal is not working.
Joy H.: It’s a lot of work.
Peter D.: The people we’ve had, we are down to the third one, the second one.
Richard S.: What was the issue Russell?
Russell S.: Not being able to understand, bad recording quality. It wasn’t necessarily it wasn’t worth doing for $300, it was more I cannot understand these voices, from our last transcriber.
Peter D.: What did the transcriber have before that? Robin was the transcriber.
Joy H.: Robin, Barbara before that. Nikki before that.
Randy G.: We’ve had five, four have actually tried to do it.
Joy H.: Barbara and Robin did it. You’re talking about 30-40 hours. It is a long time.
Peter D.: If we have to have these and we’re going to do these, we might just have to spend a couple of hundred dollars more to get it done by the right person, the right way, because obviously you get what you pay for. The person recently, was it the language, or she couldn’t understand us?
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Russell S.: It was a bit of both. I actually traveled down, she lives about 140 miles. I went down twice to sit and listen to the voices, and we are all guilty of it. We’ve done it at this meeting. None of us are introducing ourselves, whoever we get to do this, unless they know us all personally, they don’t know who is speaking. I don’t think the way we are doing it at the moment is going to work for any transcriber unless they particularly know us as individuals.
Randy G.: Or sat in this room.
Joy H.: Like they used to do.
Kenny W.: I was looking at the rate of price comparison for transcribers and it’s crazy because it’s 17 cents per line is how they really do it. They count the lines and they charge per line. An average 60 minute could cost anywhere from $90-150. That’s just an idea of what the going rate is. If we are getting away with $300, we are getting away with murder.
Richard S.: For informational purposes, we actually looked at professional transcribers and compared it. I went through with our reports and counted lines to make sure that we were within that scope. The 380-490 fell within that scope for our quarterlies.
Kenny W.: Okay, just sharing information.
Russell S.: When I was looking for answers as to how we found ourselves in a position that
we presented actual transcripts I started trolling back through some of our past minutes
and from my research, I don’t think there was ever a moment when it was that we need to
change the way we need to present our minutes or the conference said we want
transcripts. Not from what I could find anyway. I think it was a mixture of new secretaries coming in and changing of styles of writing the minutes. If you look from one secretary to
another, there are vast differences in how people present their minutes. There was a shift
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around 2005-2006-2007, I spoke to a couple of trustees that served on that board. Jackie for one, she was rotating out and Nik was coming in. Jackie recalls it as they couldn’t get the person in the room one weekend and it seems like the perfect option and it just went down that road of let’s record it. Next thing, transcripts were being put together. I hear, and I’m only playing devil’s advocate here, I hear some prudence and let’s first ask conference prior to making any changes. I would also like us to consider our right of decision, trusting our own ability to make grander decisions on what’s best. I think there will always be mistrust in certain quarters if we discuss not having transcripts. There will always be members of our Fellowship that wonder what we are hiding, talking about. I have been one of those members. We don’t have a transcriber at the moment, we’re backed up already one set of minutes, with this one, two sets of minutes. Whoever we do get, unless we go back to the person who did it before, they may not recognize our voices. I just see us digging a deeper and deeper hole. To carry on as we’re doing now, even if we have a transcriber available to do it by the end of this weekend, we’re not necessarily going to get out of this situation. I’m locked into the notes I’ve taken for this. If we’re still going to use transcriber, do I forward those notes, because if there’s any conflict between what I’ve recorded and what a transcriber then records, one way or another. At times, I think it’s too easy for us to say let’s not do anything, see what the conference wants us to do. My understanding of the concepts is that this board is put together and trusted to make decisions as to when or when not it goes back to them. There are bylaws at stake, we must go back to conference for certain things. Other things we are trusted to make decisions, and I believe this is a decision we can make, then we stand in front of our fellows and explain why we made it. I think waiting
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until conference, this far out may not be the best. That being said, we are one quarterly down.
Randy G.: I still believe that transparency can take place and the availability of that recording can be presented to the conference. I’m sure I didn’t as much digging or research as Russell did as to when it started happening, but I do not remember the provision of the transcripts, of the quarterlies or Board-to-Boards as being anything requested by conference or made motion to. A decision not to continue that, I don’t think would require us to go to the conference to ask their permission to do that. We were never asked, that I am aware of, to provide it in the first place. What we always have considered to be important would be the access to that information if it were requested. At one point in time, Russell and I spoke early on about the new technology available to the world today. I cannot help but watch closed-caption on ESPN and wonder if there is a $300 program that will take every word we say and put it in writing, then it would be up to us to go back in and filter as to who said what. If that is a financial decision that fits and with a little bit of effort on our part or how we approach. We don’t speak aloud without saying our name first. It would then be simple to make the changes. There is software out there for the $300¬400 purchase price that is used by organizations right now to take the spoken word and put that into text. Is that even an option? I really wanted to open the discussion and get some direction. Russell is accurate, we are one set behind right now and will be two sets behind at the close of the weekend.
Richard S.: I listened carefully, what I got the sense of is, this is difficult, throw up our hands. That is a lot of what I got from this discussion. We’ve known for a month and a half that we do not have a transcriber. Action could have been taken. We know we are behind.
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Absolutely it was not the conference requesting our quarterly minutes transcribed. We have been supplying this in this manner. We do and have always distributed minutes. Secretarial-type minutes. The quality has changed over the years from the early days when it was written on the chalkboard on the office to transcriptions. One thing I like about the transcriptions is that it’s not the secretary—not you—a secretary missed a bunch of what was being said or maybe did not correctly transcribe or edit it. The fact that we all have the opportunity to review the minutes as transcribed, I think it is an excellent advantage and provides much more detail to the Fellowship that is requested and we are obligated to come together and funded to come together. I believe this is a great way to show the work that is being accomplished. I believe it is important, that though the conference did not request it, we are going to make a change like that and not ask them their thoughts and opinions. It is changing a way we are doing business, I believe it is far more healthy than saying we’re changing it, let’s see who notices. I know no one’s said that, however, for me that is the extreme, we can change what we’re doing. I don’t believe this is the most healthy approach for the service we provide. If we are going to make that change, we should put it out there, stand up and answer the questions.
Peter D.: One thing my sponsor always told me, he said what are your motives? I think our
motives is to save money, get the message, get the word out, make sure that we are
transparent, and to wait until conference to do it, if we’re doing this not to hide anything,
not to shortcut anything, we’re doing this to maintain our responsibilities as financial
overseers of this, so we try and save some money and try and get the message out to them
in the same way we’ve been doing, but not so expensively. What they get and how they get
it and what format it’s in, if we could go as inexpensive as possible and still get them what
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we’ve been giving them…but if we were to change something today, come to the conference and say, here’s what we did and here’s why we did it, to save some money, and everything is still here, I don’t think the conference would be…there’s always going to be somebody complaining, but I think it’s what our motives are. Our motives are good motives. We’re here to come up with a better way, a more inexpensive way in times of money problems and try and keep doing what we are doing, just in a less expensive way, I don’t think that’s.to not do it and not tell them and surprise them I think is wrong, but to let them know what we are going to be doing and why we’re going to be doing it, I think they’d appreciate that. All you hear now is 7th tradition short, money short, so we are trying to come up with a way to save some money. I think they’d be receptive to that and they’ll still have what we’ve always been giving them. Maybe not in such an exact, redacted, cleaned- up way. Then we gotta learn to talk in this room so everybody knows who’s talking.
Brian T.: I am always for saving money. I was thinking about what’s going on. We are conducting the business of Cocaine Anonymous World Services, I think that unless we have a professional secretary in here, doing the job, we need the transcripts. It’s really important that what we do here is exact and not just partially done. I’ve seen lots of secretaries. One of the reasons I did not believe I could not do a good job with that. I’ve done it, it just doesn’t work well for me. At least not currently. I think it’s difficult to get that information properly at this level, it needs to be done really precisely, in my view. The reality is that even if we are spending $500 a quarter, it’s money well spent for the record of the business of what’s going on here. I think those records need to be exact. I would be in favor of a professional transcriber or some form of a professional secretary.
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Kenny W.: You did mention, and you sparked some thoughts into my brain here and technology is available. It is. I do audio recording, I record conventions and mike up meetings and such. I do recall miking up one meeting and it was about 12 people, each person had a mike in front of them. I am just giving you a scenario. I would be more than happy to you, on the front end, let me say this, to research technology to bring back to this board and say, hey, this is what I have. I know that change is very hard for us, and some people are going to…it’s inevitable. Change is inevitable. I miked up these particular members of this 12, and did an audio recording, but on my output, there was another guy sitting over there and those words were coming off my mixer board going into this computer he had and words were popping up as they were speaking. I’m not exactly sure what that was, I can find out. You make that light bulb go off. That has happened. I just did the audio portion of that and he took the output of one of my channels, ran it into his laptop, and he was actually getting words. It was speech recognition software, but each person was miked. It was a mike within a close proximity of each person around, just like a city board meeting, or a county board meeting. If you notice, each person have a mike. And I think that mike serve two purposes for them to be amplified out to the public, but also the recording part. I’m saying that to say I would, once again, be more than willing to research that and bring it back. That’s what I wanted to say.
Richard L.: The card you gave me back, is that from the last minutes or is that a different card?
Russell S.: Which card?
Richard L.: The card for the recorder here.
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Russell S.: I believe it is blank. The recordings that were passed to me were put onto a disk, there should be a cd in that bag I gave you. The files should be in there.
Richard L.: Originally it went onto your computer as well, is that correct Richard? I just want to make sure we have copies, that blank one we have is not working.
Russell S.: There should be a cd that has the minutes, the transcripts that were typed up so far and also the remaining recordings that Richard loaded up and helped Michelle download at the other end. She then put it on a cd.
Richard L.: On the voice recognition, thinking about what Randy said about closed- captioning, I keep it on too. The words they say are frequently incorrect or missed. When we get back to minutes, it will still be % of what was said. I am okay with it, but if everybody wants complete minutes and of course what Russell was talking about transparency, every time we go into Executive Session, wandering minds will wonder “what they were talking about in Executive Session.” There could be paranoia, as if something was said bad. Definitely research that, it’s a good idea. The other thing I was thinking, if you did take the sound thing, maybe the WSO could look, when you’re looking for transcriber, we’re only just using what we know from this board, maybe the WSO, since translation committee is there, maybe they can assist in helping to find a transcriber since we have the recorded material, maybe they can help to find transcribers either locally or through professional service, or help assist with the trustees in helping find to transcribe the stuff, especially since we’ve got it on a cd and can do that. Just offering an assistance on that.
Randy G.: Again, let’s focus on the quarterlies. To address the timeframe that went by, there was some action that the board was in the middle of that kept us from some things, and
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quite frankly a time did go by where it fell of my radar until I was doing some stuff and thought, I need to handle this. One of the reasons that it was not only postponed, but because of some of the current action that took place, if you remember the last decision on the transcriber, we had three individuals. One did not send a resume in time, the two resumes we had, we went and looked through. An individual was chosen. The one that was not selected was because there were concerns expressed to that individual’s being able to fit for us. Without resuming another Executive Session, there were concerns expressed regarding one of the candidates that made me personally uncomfortable from taking a chair’s responsibility to immediately go to the next person in line or reengage with that individual. I felt that the board spoke to the issue of that individual not having the opportunity possibly if they were the only resume in front of us. At that point in time, these discussions took place. As far as inaction on my part, that was where that came from. The conversation started with Teresa that the office was considering a similar-type situation for the conference itself, so as we would be meeting face-to-face in a few weeks, I felt we should sit down and really have this discussion. That is an explanation as to why action was not taken prior to now. I know from the technology standpoint, again I appreciate Kenny’s willingness to look into that. It would change how we meet. We would literally have to say our first name prior to speaking any single word, it would be the only way that would work outside of maybe an individual mike scenario. I recently spoke in New Mexico and not only did they post what I was saying behind me on a big screen, they translated it into another language almost as quickly as I was speaking. I do believe there is technology that may be useful.
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Joy H.: The current program being used offers that, let’s look into that. Is it still free, Richard?
Richard S.: Yes.
Joy H.: We need to have it on the secretary or assistant secretary’s laptop and as we are all speaking, have it on, maybe have a test run, see if it will work.
Randy G.: We have voice to text software?
Unknown: It is transcribing software.
Joy H.: The software will take the voice and put into typed words. It is the same software we offer to the transcribers to use. It is free, downloadable software.
Richard S.: It does not get everything, including punctuation. That needs to be cleaned up but it works. Just so you know, voice recognition software has been around for a long time. The one who’s done it best, Russell pointed it out, is Dragon. The issue is that in this environment, Dragon doesn’t work well because of the cross-voices, communication, it stammers, pauses, it does have it’s own issues. It does great one-on-one. What I did was I’ve begun looking at conference transcribing software. I will send a link, it’s probably the best one for us to investigate for options. It has many available options. It’s called BizScribes, if you want to look at it Kenny. They offer the service, software, they are in Louisville. It looks like they may have the best solutions for us to investigate, not only for this board, but for boards going forward, to make things easier. It is cost-effective as well. I do know the best individual transcribing software does not work in this environment. That doesn’t mean there isn’t something out there that will. I know that there are business meetings that occur all the time that are transcribed easily. That part of the technology, I am not up on, so that’s
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probably something that we will wait for Kenny to find out about in his investigation on that. That was the one I found, hopefully it’s helpful for you.
Russell S.: We have spoken about the recording programs. Brian spoke about the necessity, which I wholeheartedly agree on of accurate, word-perfect minutes. I forget the terminology you used, this is accurate, in my understanding according to Russell. Under this item, I’ve listed all discussion on legal and spiritual requirements. If there is a motion that comes here, it will be absolutely word perfect, but as far as minutes, I’m not a secretary and I cannot see typing this, not like that. It’s just not going to happen. That’s what you guys are getting at the moment with me doing this. If that’s not accurate and word perfect enough, then I need some help immediately, as that’s how I’ve been recording this meeting so far. I believe that minutes are minutes, transcripts are transcripts. Minutes and motions to show that the business has taken place, discussion without having to be, Bill said. That is not my view of what my understanding of what minutes are. How we get to a conclusion is how we get to a conclusion. It’s the conclusions, motions.
Unknown: It’s minutes.
Randy G.: If our current recording with a free download could, at the very least, blurt out pages and pages of text to the best of it’s inability, would the timeframe that a transcriber with a pedal and that text in front of him or her go through that making minor corrections at a rate way faster than typing it from scratch?
Richard S.: I have not played with the output, I just know it has the capability of doing it. I have not looked at blocks and how it breaks it apart. I just know it can export it. I can look at it or give it to Kenny to look at.
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Randy G.: It may be rough, we might not be able to tell who exactly stopped talking and who started, but the person who is then going back through it and listening with everything in front of them could quickly make those notes after learning voices and maybe the preparation with the entire block of text in front of them wouldn’t take nearly as much time.
Kenny W.: Here again, we have to be more formal on how we present ourselves, even with, and it’s already been stated more than once, I don’t like restating stuff, but here again we have to say who we are, even if it’s nothing but Kenny. Aside from that, there is some software out there, most of us are familiar with it, that does auto-correction and grammar check, you can take that text, throw it in there and say fix it. It’s not going to be perfect, of course not. It will punctuate it as best, you can read back through it and make corrections. So technology is available and we should more than lend ourselves to it. The auto¬correction and auto-grammar check and all that stuff, spell check, it’s available. So, you know with that block of text you were talking about, even before passing it on, it can run it through that and say here. Or it may even be good enough at that point, I don’t know, but I’m willing. This is interesting, interesting stuff today.
Russell S.: Kenny just finished off there with something that may be…we could include one of these programs first, and then handing it over to somebody to both listen to and type up, is that what you are saying? When Richard was talking, and Dragon is about a $1.00 app, it’s got about 80% of what you send. It transcribed his mother, though I don’t recall him mentioning his mother. 80% of it is there. Maybe we could help that along with healthy habits when we’re discussing limiting costs or.
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Kenny W.: And better than microphones, that are in closer proximity to or more sensitive microphones that are designed to pick up your voice, that’s really designed for that. The frequency, they’re designed to operate in that frequency range of our voices and to omit stuff that is outside that voice range.
Russell S.: When we had the TEC stuff at conference, I can remember hearing some grumblings around the condition of the recordings and I heard it but did not register it. It was not until I listened to what’s coming out of these currently, when Michelle was the transcriber, I realized that to be the quality of what we have at the moment is difficult to hear, to understand, there is a lot of amplified, ambient noise. We all type. You can hear constant keystrokes. Miking may be an issue as well.
Kenny W.: I am willing to, I am excited about this, even looking into it. I don’t know where we’re at in terms of moving forward. Are we at a point where we can say hey, let’s wait until whenever or wait on the conference or, I don’t know.
Randy G.: I don’t have anyone else in line, maybe I will summarize what I’ve heard and ask what you want us to do. There is a discussion about a possible response from the Attorney General or any legal response we need to acquire. May I ask both Richard and Peter to work with the office in that regard?
Peter D.: I will take the lead.
Randy G.: Thank you. The discussion regarding possible referrals or possible SR-14, obviously I think needs to set on the table until we get that information back and continue on with this discussion. I did not hear that this board is prepared to make a motion, but just looking for more information to continue the discussion. I have a willingness by Kenny to look into research of technology for this solution and I think all of us heard very loud and
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clear that we have a legal requirement and spiritual responsibility to provide our Fellowship with all of the information they deserve. Balancing that with a fiscal responsibility is the challenge. I think with everyone’s permission, this item remains and will be moved to an item of old business to be reviewed during our next conference call and the next quarterly. As soon as any information gathered by Peter or Kenny is available or from anyone as to this, please get it to the board.
Brian T.: We have no minutes from the last quarterly, we have Russell’s minutes from this quarterly, is that correct?
Randy G.: That would be correct, if when we close out this portion of this agenda item, the next agenda item is the transcriber and exactly what you want me to do or us, as a board to do in getting last quarterly’s minutes transcribed and getting these transcribed, with no decision by this board to move away from this process, the next item of business is the transcriber would be to give me direction as to how to proceed in getting those caught up and done. Does that answer your question?
Brian T.: I think so. Thank you.
Randy G.: The agenda item regarding minutes and requirements, was that stated to where we are today? Does anyone have anything else they would like to add to that? This item will be moved to an open item of old business.
Russell S.: Is this going to be discussed at the Board-to-Board?
Randy G.: At the Board-to-Board, Teresa and I, she actually asked me to put it on the agenda from the perspective that there is consideration by the WSOB regarding the conference. I think the conference is a much easier, okay I wouldn’t say easier, but because the conference has acting conference secretaries truly coming close to dictating the activity
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that takes place throughout the conference, our dailies that are distributed to the delegates throughout the conference come very close to word-for-word transcription. I think that’s a separate topic. Her concern wasn’t the quarterlies and Board-to-Board, which is ours. Theirs is regarding the $2,500 spent on the conference and whether that really makes sense considering we give out dailies. It will come up at the Board-to-Board, though not focused on our meetings as it is on theirs. Do we feel like because we know that’s the topic, do we want to address that separately, right now or wait until the Board-to-Board, would it be good to have a WSBT consensus regarding the same question in relation to the conference? If so, w should probably discuss that right now. Is the conference a different animal?
Brian T.: Yes.
Randy G.: As members of the WSBT, are we more apt to again, it was my understanding
after speaking with Teresa that they are still looking to record the conference and have that
recording made available upon request, but essentially the dailies would, to a certain
degree take the place of a word for word transcription and that $2,500 could possibly be
saved. How does the WSBT feel about that in reference to the conference?
Brian T.: I think it is something the conference needs to be deciding. It is the Fellowship’s record of their business, more so than this is, per se. This affects the Fellowship, that would be something the conference itself should decide, more than anything else. I also know that having paid attention to the transcripts versus dailies, the dailies are this big, the transcripts are this big [uses hand gestures]. They are not word for word at all. They summarize sometimes a little bit of what goes on, the do get motions and items of importance, absolutely, in the dailies. If you are looking for what was discussed and how
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the procedure worked through it, the dailies do not always properly reflect that. There is a difference there. I believe it is a conference decision, rather than us or the office.
Randy G.: I think it’s important that when we go into a Board-to-Board meeting knowing it will be discussed, we can obviously say we are determining this from a perspective of
something ____________ group, whether we want a WSBT opinion expressed at this
Board-to-Board or this is going to be open to general discussion by each individual.
Terry M.: I think I am along the same lines as Brian on this, for many of the same reasons you just mentioned. I don’t really have more to add. The fact is that most people don’t read either of them anyway. I think the daily transcripts are really when everything is fresh in everybody’s mind. The conference will tell them whether they want them or not.
Randy G.: Is that the general consensus of the board, that the decision is not the office’s or the board’s, rather the conference’s decision?
Russell S.: I feel the discussion is both boards to have, and agree the decision is for the conference to make. I do believe discussion, debate, and suggestions on which way to go is both boards.
Richard S.: In order to open that discussion up to the conference floor, we need to be able to let them know that we have inquired with the State of California as to our legal responsibilities are, in order for the conference to make an informed decision. Richard L.: We need to inform the conference we did our homework too. Randy G.: Our understanding is that there is no requirement to even record the conference. The conference is not official business, this is the official business of our corporation. It is the spiritual aspect of that of our Fellowship that creates the discussion. Peter D.: A good way to look at it, this is the legal recording, that is the spiritual recording.
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Brian T.: For instance, when S&B goes through and makes their changes, where do they initiate from, the transcripts?
Joy H.: Yes. Because we are changing the manual.
Randy G.: I had no indication from Teresa that there was any desire to move away from recording and that recording would always be made available to anyone who requested it. It’s about the publication of that recording and cost of the publication. That is really the issue, sometimes it’s hard for me to step back, we are not keeping it from anyone. This is a money issue, the cost of the publication. Are we summarized pretty well with this? Okay, with that, next new business item, 2011.
Joy H.: We haven’t done transcription yet? We mixed them.
Randy G.: Because the transcriber had not in that point in time been presented that we didn’t have one, so it was a new item. Now I need direction as to how to move forward. Next item 2011.10.04, transcriber. What would you like me to do.
Peter D.: Transcribe.
Randy G.: Our choices are to engage immediately with a professional organization that transcribes the conference minutes and try to get ours put together as quickly as possible, there would be some obvious interaction I believe I would have to have with them with respect to who is speaking what, and doing maintenance. We can engage in going back out to the Fellowship again for another series of resumes. Quite frankly, the discussion we had about the existing resumes really left us only one individual to choose and that individual now cannot do that. I am not comfortable, I don’t know what would have taken place that would allow the other individuals to be taken as just next in line. If you want me to do that,
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I can pursue that. I just know there was some concerns expressed that kept me from doing that before. I am looking for direction, what do you want us to do?
Terry M.: I think we need to get them done, and quickly. Going to the Fellowship can be a process of another three to six weeks, we don’t meet again until the UK. I think we really don’t have much of an alternative other than maybe go to that professional service and try to get them done.
Russell S.: The issue of taking what we currently have to a professional company is the identification of our voices. That would be a major issue. Those that have previously, is it worth approaching those who have previously stated they will never do it again and asking, explaining the situation we are currently in and asking if they are in a position to help us get current with this? If it is a financial matter, then what would they wish to be compensated in order to be willing to take it on? If we go down the professional route, Randy I can see you spending time on the phone clarifying whose voice is who.
Randy G.: I am trying my best to recognize people before they speak, so I think that helps in any of the transcription, even if someone forgets to announce their name. It is more when we allow the banter and questions and answers to go back and forth. I am trying to verbalize as much as I can.
Terry M.: Knowing that we have contact with a couple of those people, I would like to hold off on a decision until maybe a couple of them can be contacted sometime today to find out if they’re even willing, instead of walking away from this meeting with no direction. Really, the only direction we have is if we go professional instead of waiting for somebody to make a decision. I would like to see us make a couple of phone calls and see if that can be
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addressed before we walk out of here, like during our break, maybe call Robin or Barbara. We can talk back and forth about this.
Randy G.: Anybody else?
Brian T.: I agree with Terry. Let’s check with them. If not, we need to at least take care of the last quarter, those minutes really should be in this next mailing, and I don’t know if they will be, regardless. I think it’s important we get that done at least take care of what’s behind us. Going forward, check other options available so we don’t have to necessarily make a decision at this moment on that, but we need to take care of the past.
Randy G.: Anyone else, suggestions or direction? As I only heard from two people and no one else has had anything else to say, is it the general consensus to go and look towards making contact with the two individuals that have done it in the past and bring that feedback back to this group prior to the end of the quarterly. Okay.
Brian T.: The question has come up, what would they want to do it?
Richard S.: Yes.
Joy H.: Barbara doesn’t really care. She would do it for $300.
Richard S.: I have a concern, we have a set amount, I would rather see if someone would help rather than put it out there as an open.
Peter D.: Why have they quit in the past, did they just get tired of doing it? So maybe an extra $100?
Brian T.: This is a one shot deal.
Russell S.: To follow up on what Richard said, I did word it in such a way, to find out if they would be willing to help us out if the issue if them not being willing to do so was one of financial compensation, then ask them what they felt would be appropriate.
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Randy G.: Not an open check, rather a request. Thank you for that, we are now at the end of new business. It is 1:04, we will take a lunch break, we will reconvene in an hour and a half. Welcome back, it is 2:32 on Saturday afternoon. We have addressed old and new business. Now we return to correspondence and referrals. We will be going offline to go into breakout sessions to prepare responses.
Richard S.: Is it okay if we back up to discuss a piece of business from earlier?
Randy G.: I received a response from the prior transcriber and there is interest. There was a discussion about more money. I know the interest is proposed hourly, I have concern with that. I would like to know if this body would like to come up with a flat fee to make an offer. If everyone else is, and I’m the only one that has a concern with hourly, I will absolutely stand down. I got a response, we have a willing participant who has done it before. I will leave it up to you all.
Randy G.: With that update, I would entertain a motion readdress…
Richard S.: Motion to reopen agenda item 2011.10.04, transcriber.
Joy H.: Second.
Randy G.: Motion by Richard S. to reopen agenda item 2011.10.04, second by Joy. Hearing no discussion, all those in favor? Opposed? Motion passes. With this new information, discussion is open as to the financial aspect. I believe because this is public information as to what we pay a transcriber, it would not be considered Executive Session and therefore we will now commence open discussion.
Kenny W.: That was going to be my request, that we are talking about a person that is going to be…
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Randy G.: I made this decision, because traditionally Executive Session is regarding salaries of staff and those type of issues. This is a dollar value that has been set for the role of a transcriber. It is in a conference-approved budget and to change the dollar value we would pay for that approved budget line item, I believe should be for public information.
Kenny W.: Would it also require conference approval?
Randy G.: We have the authority as the WSBT to make those types of financial decisions in the best interest of the Fellowship in between conferences.
Peter D.: I am against hourly. I think we make her a flat offer. We were paying her $300, we don’t have anybody, not many people around, can we do $400, is that a figure that would be…I don’t like hourly, that could cost us a ton.
MZ000080 is missing, there is discussion and a motion on this segment.
Randy G.: Any more discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor of the motion.
Russell S.: Motion to increase the amount from $300 to $400 for each set of minutes. For clarification, as set is per quarterly for both boards.
Randy G.: Everyone understands the motion? All those in favor? Opposed? Motion carries. If you can contact her and extend that offer, we will leave this agenda item open until we are given a response. Thank you. Are there any other issue we would like updates on or address prior to going offline and going into breakout session to work on correspondence and referral responses? Hearing none, we are into breakout at 2:43 pm.
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Randy G.: Good morning everyone, it is Sunday morning at 8:15 am. For the record, we closed our break out session at 4:30 Saturday afternoon and went over to the World Service Office, where we participated in the Board-Board meeting. It was a productive meeting. We are now back in session. A couple of items to be updated since we were on.
Richard Schafer will give us an update as to where we are with our transcriber for the August set.
Richard S.: I received communication that the former transcriber accepted our offer to transcribe the August set of minutes. The accepted, extended offer was $400 for the set. She actually requested them last night. While I could not get them to her because of the B2b running so late. I will get them to her this afternoon, so she is excited to start on them for us.
Russell S.: Excited.
Richard L.: Thank you.
Richard S.: Thank you, Robin.
Randy G.: Also as a result of the Board-to-Board last night, I would entertain a motion to reopen an item of business originally discussed, marker 2006.02.20, copyright and trademark protection.
Richard S.: So moved.
Brian T.: Second.
Randy G.: Motion by Richard Schafer, second by Brian to reopen marker 2006.02.20, copyright and trademark protection. Any feelings regarding C dot A dot.
Peter D.: I think we should enter it as housekeeping, bring it to the conference and tell them what we did.
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Richard L.: Do you want to expand on what it is we are doing?
Peter D.: No.
Brian T.: For the record.
Peter D.: There was a discussion at the Board-to-Board last night that this should be a referral, and it was discussed at the conference this year we can use either CA or C.A. in the United States. I think we have decided to stay with uniformity to make all of our literature and print matter C.A. The discussion last night was what would be the best way to do it. Somebody came up with an idea that we put it in as housecleaning. That’s probably the best I can expand on it.
Randy G.: What action is required by the WSBT to make that happen? Do we need a motion that is a directive? Do we put it in a referral that S&B consider?
Richard S.: I motion that we establish the policy of C.A. to be utilized in all published material and literature for Cocaine Anonymous worldwide.
Joy H.: Second.
Richard L.: I have a point of information. When you say all printed material, let’s say a local area writes a little newsletter and they don’t put the C.A. in, we’re not going to come after them, that’s what I’m trying to say, all the pamphlets.
Terry M.: I think the wording is very important on this. Mostly just because as it was stated in the point of information. We need to make sure we keep the CA also, and by moving totally away from our and keeping areas from doing CA is, at least we’re still utilizing our CA trademark. I think the uniformity of all of our printed material being exactly the same is important. Keeping inventory the same and not having to create different—did I send them the right pamphlets? As we are doing our own in-house printing for pamphlets and
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brochures, I know from experience of having multiple language, multiple files, sometimes I click the wrong button, even though the languages appear to be similar, we happen to do that once in a while, because we are human. I’m totally in favor of this motion.
Richard S.: There is a correction to the motion. I recall I stated when abbreviating Cocaine Anonymous, I believe that is important to have in the motion on what we are using it as, an abbreviation. That separates it from wanting to be utilized as CA in a logo.
Randy G.: With no objection, I will allow that. We will add it in.
Russell S.: I would like to hear the motion as it should be with the correction. I do not want to trust the recording. The motion reads: I move that we establish a policy of using C.A. when abbreviating Cocaine Anonymous in all of our published materials.
Randy G.: I would like to ask Russell to re-read the motion into the record for us please.
Russell S.: Motion: I move that we establish a policy of using C.A. when abbreviating Cocaine Anonymous in all of our published materials.
Randy G.: For those of you who are Robert’s Rules of Order fanatics, I appreciate the leniency in just moving through this.
Russell S.: I don’t wish to get to anal on this, do we need to include the word future, as in “all of our future,” because at the moment could that be construed as any stock. I know we have a policy of selling any inventory we currently have.
Richard S.: I believe if we leave it at this, that can be described, whereas if we set it as future, someone could say “well, these pamphlets were already printed and set up that way, so you’re not changing those.” I believe this allows for discussion and it still gets the point across, in my opinion. I could be in the minority, which wouldn’t be a surprise.
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Richard L.: Since this is being conveyed to the WSOB, and they’re the ones actually doing the printing, it could be verbally explained to them. We’re okay with that.
Randy G.: Any other discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor? Opposed? Motion passes. That brings us to the completion of our items of business in both…
Terry M.: I do not believe it does. I believe we need to put on the record what we are doing for the assembly and Hope Faith and Courage Society. I would like to move to reopen 2011.04.03.
Richard S.: Second.
Randy G.: Motion by Terry to reopen business item 2011.04.03, assembly and the Edmonton Hope Faith and Courage Society, seconded by Richard S. All those in favor? Opposed? Motion passes.
Terry M.: I think after we had some discussion yesterday with the WSO, I would like to see us take a direction of a couple of phone calls, with the possibility that we might need to respond further with a cease and desist letter if the phone calls are unsuccessful. I feel
Randy came up with a good idea, that he should probably make the first phone call, and I would follow it up. Just so everybody knows what page we are on in dealing with this at the moment. I think it was important when we were talking about the clock starting to run, we will need to pay attention to immediate follow-up. I think we are open to suggestions.
Peter D.: I think the starts to run once the letter is sent. It doesn’t start on a phone call. This has been going on now for a year.
Terry M.: It’s been going on a lot longer than a year.
Peter D.: It was brought to our attention about a year ago. I think a phone call is a great idea, cause you know the guy—meaning Randy. I agree.
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Kenny W.: In terms of the clock beginning to run, there was a discussion, a brief discussion regarding negligence and that if you know that somebody is using the copyright and you say nothing it is, after a period of time, a quasi-way of saying well, I am being negligent, they can use that after a period of time. They can say “they’ve been knowing about that for five years, three years…” in terms of the clock ticking, I understand and agree with the moving expeditiously on this so that we can, I don’t know if nipping it in the bud would be an appropriate term at this point, since we’ve known about it for so long. But, I agree with that, moving on with this as soon as possible.
Russell S.: I would like to go on the record and share my concerns around this, and whilst I believe that it is absolutely necessary to protect the name Cocaine Anonymous and our trademarks, I was concerned when I sat amongst a group of people last night and we were talking about being willing to get into a costly legal battle at whatever cost. With something like this, and I saw my fellows saying, yeah, any cost. I think this stuff needs to be put in some sort of perspective, I’m cool with a phone call being made, but I hope that nothing, I think we need to look at this at what it is. I don’t want to be heard saying I don’t believe it’s our job to look after the name Cocaine Anonymous and our trademarks, I just don’t want to think that we’re going to rush into any legalities about what may be just a little drop in center somewhere in Canada that’s using Hope Faith and Courage and end up sending letters and getting carried away at the moment and spending whatever, $90,000. And I hope I am not going to get criticized for that, it just caught me last night when I looked around the table and I saw a group of people saying at any costs. It concerned me. I hear the work and the effort that we’ve put into setting up trademarks and things like that, but I’m
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trying to keep it in perspective. I’m good with a call being made, I hope it can be resolved like that.
Kenny W.: That was definitely one of my concerns right off the top. After we started having some healthy conversation about it, I think that after talking to Bob, he made it clear to me that, and we have to go into this with our purpose in mind in protecting what’s ours. At the same time, we have to be prudent. After talking to Bob, he said “Kenny, if it gets too costly, we can pull the plug at any time.” I said, well what happens if we pull the plug? In essence, if we pull the plug, we lose, because we start weighing the cost against what we are trying to achieve. If the cost gets too great, then he said we could pull the plug at any time. No one knows the cost going in. I have no way of knowing, but I know that we have to do something, we have to make a move, but when it comes to a cost, I don’t think it should be at any cost.
Randy G.: With no objection, I have added my name. I think about trademark protection
and again, the same concerns as Russell, I never want to not believe this is extremely
important. I look at Computer Associates and they’ve got billboards all over town that have
CA, and we don’t believe that’s a trademark violation because we don’t believe they are
representing themselves as Cocaine Anonymous. They are allowed to run their business
with the exact trademark that we’re going to uphold and defend. There may be other
businesses that utilize CA, and we don’t believe they’re trying to represent themselves as
Cocaine Anonymous. Therefore we don’t find a violation of our copyright. I don’t know if
the Edmonton Hope Faith and Courage Society is attempting to represent themselves or we are in danger of them representing themselves as Cocaine Anonymous. It is a finer line,
because they host some meetings there, but I’m not sure that representation in any way or
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form threatens us. I look at trademark violations as you are out there running your
business based on us, and your success is being based on us, there are some things about
what we’ve done and you’re now taking advantage of to prosper from…I don’t know, but I
don’t feel their use of Hope Faith and Courage was anything more out of respect and love.
There’s no doubt, because they host meetings and because we know the individuals are
involved with that facility that it came from Cocaine Anonymous, but I don’t think there’s a there is a threat posed. I don’t believe they’re representing themselves as Cocaine
Anonymous. I’m not sure if we went down a true legal battle that a judge would see it that
way either. That is my concern, I think, regarding how much money do we want to defend if we couldn’t prove that they are a threat, or do they truly pose one to our business.
Richard S.: Discussion is always good to have. This is a continuation of some discussion that started at the Board-to-Board and some thoughts and ideas that have been mulled over through the night and brought back up to make sure our thoughts are clearly expressed. I feel that’s healthy. I think we all have the experience in recovery of seeking balance. It is the same with our efforts in our service work, and the same as the efforts at this board, seeking balance. Knowing we have an obligation to protect our copy written material, and a balance in our financial responsibilities. I honestly did not take anyone’s remarks of “at any cost” to be bankrupting the Fellowship on any one single item. We all have passions in different areas, you’re all clear how askew I get in some areas, and I understand other people’s passions in particular areas. I was clear that no one this board mean we are going to bankrupt the Fellowship on using the term at any cost, nor when we bring up the subject, do we have an idea of what we’re getting into. We just know it’s an avenue we need to go down, I think bringing it down from attorneys and drafting letters to a phone call is a great
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way. Our discussion brings us back into balance and we start down an avenue. I also don’t hear anyone saying “I’m not concerned about protecting our material.” I think everyone is being very clear, and it’s also an unknown. Sometimes we don’t do well with unknowns. However, it is the next step we take, I think the phone call is a good part of the process.
Terry M.: There are a couple of things mentioned. One, we are in a learning curve on this. We don’t know, we haven’t experienced it before. I think this discussion is going to benefit us down the road, even though we are kind of confused at what to do and the best way to handle it. I believe in responding earlier we probably would have been more…personally I would have been more unarmed in what I would respond with anything that came back. I am speaking to my own ability to deal with something I have no clue, I am not a lawyer, I punch a computer and do graphics all day. I don’t understand all of the legal ramifications in trademark protection and copyright. I was kind of offended by the “at all costs,” because at first my thing was, I was offended personally, but I know that our duty is not to bankrupt the Fellowship. We are financial planners, we are not here to bankrupt the Fellowship. I understand that and I kind of backed off my own thoughts at that time to where when an expenditure is going to be like that, there is no way one person is going to make that decision. Even with a letter, we’re not going to send a letter out that is not approved by us. There is no one person that will make a decision of what we are going to write and send.
My biggest concern is if they can do it, why can’t I? I am an addict, I’ve been around, I know exactly what happens when we don’t stop something. We are those type of people that say, you let them do it, why can’t we? I believe that’s really what this approach is about, there is an entire region that knows. Anyone who has read the minutes over the last couple of quarterlies knows. If we don’t take action, that’s what it’s doing, opening up that door to
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“well, those guys did it and you didn’t do anything about it.” I think it’s important that we take a stand. However that happens to turn out on protecting and saying we are not going to allow that. That is the message everyone is going to hear. Now if they hear we cannot do anything about it, that just opens the door for all kinds of problems. The great thing about this is no single person will make that one decision. No letter is going to go out, no money is going to be spent. It will definitely be discussed. I think that’s what protects us from at any cost comment that came last night.
Richard L.: I already hear, in my head, we are taking action, and it’s positive. The first item of action is communication, and that’s what we are doing. We are going to start with communication. That is not going to cost anything and nobody has thrown a number yet so I’m not worried about that. It was funny, where I sat at the table, Brian was on that side of the table, he had a huge sign that said Hope Faith and Courage. At the time, it didn’t really bother me, then I thought what if somebody opened a place called Experience, Strength and Hope. That is the title of our book. Richard and I were talking about it, all they had to was spray paint Edmonton on top and Society on the bottom, the basically took our book and just did that. I don’t believe in coming in vengeance or at any cost. Bob mentioned the circle and triangle because out here, and I’m sure you had it in other areas, a lot of people put a circle and triangle under their business, it was really to let people know I’m in the program, buy from me, or do business here, I am a fellow member. In the office we deal with this all the time, people are constantly trying to sell CA t-shirts and medallions. The first thing we do is open up communication and send them vendor paperwork. If they want to continue to do business, you have to fill out a vendor form and you have to put the ® where it has to be. It is all done with communication first. I think we are taking a step in the right direction
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and we are getting away from not doing anything. No one has made a motion to spend any money or anything yet. We don’t know what the cost is, I have expressed concern because it cannot be handled here in the United States, it will ultimately be handled, if necessary, in Canada. It is not a local problem to be handled here. Randy made the suggestion, Terry, it is in your region, you’re getting full support from this board, both boards. This is a great start, we are actually doing something and support it, opening the doors of communication to start off with. I disregard the talk of bankruptcy, that was someone totally speaking out of passion.
Peter D.: Randy said something about, he doesn’t think these people are intentionally going to harm CA. We will know that as soon as the phone call is made. Hey, the name there is ours, would you please stop using it? If he says fine, no problem. Fine, no problem. If he says I’m not changing it, we will have to do something, like Terry said, if you use it, then you can, you can, all of a sudden we have nothing. We paid all this money to copyright and trademark, protect something, and everyone is out there using it. When AA lost their rights to this [gestures], they lost millions and millions of dollars. Everybody uses it, doesn’t matter. Once we let somebody do it, that could set a precedent for everybody else. We are not going to bankrupt CA, but we are not going to give away something that is going to make us money in the future. Our name, our logo, and trademarks, that is ours. It is what makes us who we are. The CA in California is California, and was there before CA was. They’re not affecting us, but this clubhouse is in our business. They are using our name for their deal. If somebody goes in there and gets shot or killed, they see Hope Faith and Courage, the lawyers look it up, it belongs to us, we get sued too. Our defense that it’s not ours, and theirs is that we didn’t do anything to stop them. Just ridiculous stuff like that, but
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it happens. We have to protect ourselves at all costs. No not at all costs. We are not going to bankrupt ourselves to have a name we can’t do anything with, but we have to protect what is ours. We have to start out nicely, if it doesn’t work, we have to be prepared to defend this internationally, wherever it happens, we have to be ready to protect it because it is ours. We paid to protect it and if somebody does something, yes international is expensive. Local is expensive, but we have to do it, it is our responsibility, I feel, as trustees. Once you let one person do it, it’s not really hurting us, then that’s it. We lose our rights.
Brian T.: I am certainly not a trademark lawyer, so if this is at the to harm us, I
don’t have the answer to that. Maybe that is something we should look into. However, we pay a lot of money to protect these, our copyright and trademarks. If we are not going to do anything about them, why are we doing that? It is a lot of money we can hold onto. As far as what cost we will go to and how far, we are talking about a phone call right now. I don’t see how anything we’ve talked about points to legal fees, which may not even exist. I think it’s important that, first of all as the primary financial planner, I don’t think anyone is going to bankrupt us. I think we have enough intelligence on the board if we end up in a legal battle, we have to cost versus the risk and what is involved with that. AA stopped defending the circle and triangle because it was too expensive. If that is the case, I have to have hope that whoever is on this board will have enough common sense to realize that. I think making a phone call and then following up on it is vital and part of our responsibility. If we are not sure about intent, talk to a lawyer about that. I, myself do not know the law that way. I am all for the phone call and at least starting the process.
Russell S.: There was a Grapevine article by AA about when they got to a point of letting go of some of their struggles and fights, it wasn’t just about money, it was a spiritual
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conclusion they reached as well, not to do with money. The necessity to protect and came to a conclusion that some things just are okay to be left out there. I cannot find it, Brian I know you’re quite intertwined with AA. I certainly think it would help discussions like this if we could track it down, because it’s not just about we’ve protected this good name and therefore should go to…it’s not just about losing the money, it’s not about defending that circle and triangle for AA because of the financial loss they’ll make. They came to a spiritual conclusion with that as to is it really worth defending some of this stuff, it’s not really that important. Basic text, pamphlets, international intellectual property, yes. However, let’s define what’s actually.let’s not be so precious about some stuff. Some stuff is valuable to us, yes Hope Faith and Courage is valuable to us, let’s not get precious with it. There is a difference to it. I would like to track down that article, it stirred in me, it wasn’t just stuff we’ve spent a million dollars on legal fees, we’re spending the Fellowship’s money, let’s not do this anymore. They came from a spiritual point of view as well as to how it was diverting them as a Fellowship, as a board and their primary purpose. It wasn’t actually that important, whether they had it or didn’t have it, it didn’t get any less or more people sober.
I think let’s not miss that side of it. We’re not Pepsi. I don’t want to take away the importance of looking after our intellectual property, but I don’t want to get diverted from our Fellowship’s primary purpose and spend any money that’s not necessary. Especially when we’re in discussions and debates on how we can save money here, or we can’t send somebody there because of the costs. We are willing to throw $5-10-15,000 on it, I don’t know how much. Once we start, it’s money in the hat that is being used for legal reasons, not to carry the message to the addict who still suffers. I don’t want to sound frothy, emotional, I don’t want to sound _________ with it. Yes I agree we’ve copyrighted our
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intellectual property. We don’t serve to protect our integrity not to protect, it’s not about money, it’s not about…
Randy G.: I think we’ve discussed it, I have accepted the responsibility to make that phone call. I can assure you that I will do that with some prudence and some care. I’m not an individual that would, I will not pose nor enter into any type of threat. A simple explanation that quite frankly, our trademark is being utilized for their business and we would ask that they explore modifying that to not. I think it’s important, and maybe to get some coaching here, I think it’s important to ask them to respond to us as to their decision as to what they anticipate and what they are going to do or not do in response to the phone call. More than that, it would be irresponsible of me and put our next series of decisions, quite frankly, at risk. If that is the direction I am receiving from this board, I will make that phone call. I would ask for a general consensus. We will consider this item of business left open and to be reported on during our next conference call. This brings us to the piece of business, the correspondence/responses from/to the Fellowship. First item C2011.7.24 request for tradition clarification. Kenny and Richard.
Kenny W.: I had worked on this with Richard and crafted a letter, sent it to Richard offline. We both agreed on the letter, it looked pretty good. I did send the response to that referral yesterday around 5:19. Joy cleaned it up for me, I think since I wasn’t the moderator of the group. The response is there for you guys to look over.
Randy G.: The one that I’m looking at was sent Saturday, December 3, 2011 at 12:43 pm.
Kenny W.: It’s the same letter, the same response, I think she cleaned it up, I don’t know if the time stamp changed on it or not.
Richard S.: If you read the response Kenny, everybody will have it.
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Randy G.: Subject line I have was an email from Kenny Williams response.
Kenny W.: You’re talking 6591?
Randy G.: No, C2011.7.24 Request for tradition clarification.
Richard S.: Joy or Kenny, which one would you say we are using?
Kenny W.: That would be 6591.
Joy H.: No, we are doing correspondence.
Brian T.: C2011.7.24
Randy G.: We are on correspondence, we have not gotten to referrals yet.
Richard S. It is the one you worked on with Joy.
Joy H.: The one you emailed and I did the format housekeeping.
Peter D.: I have it right here.
Randy G.: Has it been modified?
Joy H.: No, not modified, cleaned up. Just formatting.
Randy G.: I think in these situations we have now, we’ve sent all these out so when we are in correspondence I would ask that the lead from that team make a motion and read that response into the record, then it can be seconded.
Kenny W.: I would like to make a motion to read the response to referral C2011.7.24 into the record.
Randy G.: Just a quick note, this is correspondence, not a referral.
Richard L.: It is a motion to approve, now he is going to read it.
Randy G.: Motion to approve the following response to C2011.7.24?
Kenny W.: Exactly. Hello Craig: Thank you for contacting us regarding carrying the message via social media. Cocaine Anonymous has been toiling with the technology and social media
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also. Tradition 11, our public relation policy is based on attraction rather than promotion, we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, and films. We attempt to observe all Cocaine Anonymous principles and traditions on our websites. Since anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, we practice anonymity on our websites at all times. Cocaine Anonymous website is a public media, which has the potential for reaching the broadest possible audience and therefore required the same safeguards that we use at the level of press, radio, and films. Facebook Twitter, MySpace, and other social networking websites are public in nature. Though users create accounts and utilize names and passwords, once on the site, it is a public medium. As technologies continue to evolve, we stand a chance of becoming overwhelmed with endless unforeseen scenarios. In that, we adopted policies regarding social media to avoid reacting to internet social sensations. Our resolve is to follow the traditions that brought us thus far. When the 11th tradition was crafted, the Internet did not exist. After several rounds of healthy debate, we decided that social media might be used as a form of promotion and advertising and would not be in our best interest. It is something we should not use as a means to carry the message. If you have any further questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us anytime. In love and service, Cocaine Anonymous WSBT.
Richard L.: Second.
Randy G.: Motion by Kenny, second by Richard regarding correspondence as read into the record, C2011.7.24. Discussion? From our experience and for the record, when we are as the board of trustees, working on written responses to both correspondence and referrals,
I would ask that we have some tolerance regarding strict Robert’s Rules of Order. This can be done from a working document standpoint, any minor corrections suggestions and
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accepted by the maker not require full amendments and that we establish this as a working document set in front of us to complete for approval. Are there any objections to that? This process can get lengthy, so let’s set the parameters now.
Richard S.: In light of the ground rules set by the chair, I would like to offer at the same time, two modifications. Modify the word toil to “with much thought and consideration.” Rather than the Internet not around at that time with “the Internet was not being used as the medium it is today.”
Randy G.: Okay one at a time. The first one.
Richard S.: Toil. I would like to change that to with much thought and consideration or considering. Toiling seemed like a difficult conundrum. Does it read correctly?
Randy G.: How about just working? Cocaine Anonymous has been working with technology…
Kenny W.: It’s a synonym, it doesn’t change the meaning. Richard actually proofed this beforehand.
Richard S.: I didn’t’ care for the word toiling, am I wrong for offering that change now?
Kenny W.: I am saying I don’t understand if it wasn’t okay with you then.
Richard S.: I was working on other efforts. I motion to move this online.
Joy H.: Second.
Randy G.: Any discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? With opposition so noted, motion passes with substantial unanimity. Next correspondence, C2011.07.15, Cocaine only. Joy,
Brian, Richard.
Joy H.: I move to approve response to C2011.07.15, Cocaine only.
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Richard S.: Sparing reading it into the record, is that acceptable Mr. Chair or would you like it read into the record?
Randy G.: From a time standpoint, it needs to be read into the record.
Joy H.: I object.
Randy G.: From a standpoint of the record, I do not know how this response could be approved as a part of the record without being read. Does anyone else have any feelings just because it’s long.
Peter D.: If we’re going to read one, we might as well read them all. Let’s get it done.
Randy G.: I do not know how else to make it part of the record.
Richard S.: So my second is invalid, and Joy is making a motion.
Joy H.: Motion to move C2011.07.15 online.
Richard S. Second.
Randy G.: There has been a motion to move correspondence C2011.07.15 online, by Joy, seconded by Richard S. online. All those in favor? Opposed? Motion passes. Correspondence C2011.09.09 Bible verses used in meetings.
Terry M.: I make a motion to approve the response to correspondence C2011.09.09, Bible verses in meeting. Motion: Dear member: Thank you for your inquiry. As our Fellowship is based on the sharing of our experience, strength, and hope of each of our members, the spiritual aspect of our Fellowship will not restrict participation of anyone in that regard. Those attending meetings can/should be reminded that any opinions or interpretations that they may hear are solely those of the speaker or participant involved. All members are free to interpret the recovery program in their own terms but none can speak for a local group or C.A. as a whole.
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Joy H.: Second.
Randy G.: Motion by Terry, seconded by Joy to correspondence read into the record.
Russell S.: Are you starting with Dear Member or thank you for your question. WSBT actually have a standard statement. Motion starts at “as our.”
Randy G.: Any discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? Motion passes unanimously.
Moving onto in-conference referrals. referral #6395, limit size of trustee reports.
Joy H.: Motion to approve response to referral #6395, limit size of trustee reports. Response: The WSBT members have a responsibility to report on their regions, committees and activities. While on occasion a long report may come up, the WSBT is always mindful of balancing our responsibility of reporting while being conscientious of our conference schedule.
Richard S.: Second.
Randy G.: Motion by Joy, second by Richard S. to approve the response to referral #6395 as read into the record. Any discussion?
Brian T.: If you are changing the word from be to being, does that get done right now, because I’m going to review it before it gets…
Richard S.: Yes.
Randy G.: Really, with what he’s got to do is cut, when we send an email out that document is there, the only way Russell is going to be able to keep up with who made the motion, who seconded, the passing, is that he can go back and grab that document and paste it in. If there are any corrections, at least go back to the most recent one sent, tomorrow, this afternoon, the next day…if we are changing a single word, it needs to be reposted in a document that you can cut and paste later. Thanks Brian, great point. In this regard, with
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referral responses, we will all have the opportunity to go back and go through them before the opening report. That is where it will be presented to conference. All those in favor? Opposed? Motion passes. Referral #6557, dispense of resume submission to conference floor.
Terry M.: I would like to make a motion to approve referral response #6557. This was addressed during the final day WSC 2011. Motion was made to reconsider and a withdraw of the motion to provide limited or full resumes to the conference floor. Both motions passed. Currently the TEC is not required to provide either to the conference floor.
Kenny W..: Second.
Randy G.: Motion by Terry, second by Kenny to approve response to referral #6557 as read into the record. Discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? Motion passes. Referral response #6585 literature fulfillment outside the US.
Brian T.: I cannot open it, it is garbled.
Joy H.: Motion to move online, responses to #6585, #6596, and #6758.
Brian T.: Second.
Randy G.: There is a motion to move referral responses #6585, #6596, and #6758 online. Discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? Motion passes. At this point in time, it is about 9:30, we have an hour and a half with a full board. It might be prudent for us to entertain… Joy H.: Motion to move all referral responses online.
Richard L.: Second.
Randy G.: Motion by Joy, second by Richard L. to move all remaining referral responses
online. Discussion? All those in favor? Opposed? Motion passes. I want to let everybody
know how much I appreciate all of the effort that was put in during yesterday’s breakout
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session. For the record, we have responses to these referrals that have every one of the referrals, all of the correspondence that was open on the agenda was addressed and posted. Only time constraints kept us from working on the approval of those. We have, in my estimate, 99% to completing our entire business in front of us this weekend and the online process is a very straightforward one. I do appreciate the effort. Thank you. I am not aware of any other outstanding business. Do we adjourn the session and go into our group inventory process, or do we come back online and close?
Richard S.: We come back online, traditionally.
Randy G.: We will go offline, go into group inventory and come back. We are back in session after group inventory, and personal sharing. It is 10:30 Sunday morning. I would entertain…
Joy H.: When is our next conference call?
Randy G.: January 29th?
Richard S.: Randy, will you confirm that the date works for Robert?
Randy G.: 10:00 am pacific time. Arizona time never changes.
Russell S. Without the exact times, I have been asked when do we think we will be needing our meeting room at the hotel for the quarterly? Sunday or Monday.
Richard S.: We have one day of recoup for travel, so Monday was we had discussed. We can change that.
Russell S.: While it’s not a free suite, it’s being charged to us as a single bed rate. Shall I asked it be booked on a Sunday, is there likely anybody to be coming in on Sunday that can utilize the bedroom attached to the suite.
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Joy H.: As I am odd-woman out, I will take that room so it is utilized and we cut down on a room.
Peter D.: When does everybody think they can get their arrival and departure dates to me so I can give them to Russell so we can get with the WSOB and make plane reservations, or are we making our own reservations. Is the office booking the airline reservations. I already registered for the convention, how many have done that. Let’s get our rooms situated and get our…how are airline tickets going to get done?
Randy G.: It is up to each individual. The office has the ability to book that plane flight. The way its been done in the past is you’re responsible for going online and determining the actual flight schedule. Get the information to the office so they can book it for you, or you can book it yourself and be reimbursed. Personally, I have to nail down my own travel plans before I book.
Richard L.: Call the DOO, we may have to kind of piecemeal it depending on how much we have on the credit card. If you require us to make the payment for you so we can get that. We haven’t gotten the $10,000 card yet. If five people call at one time, it may max out the card. As long as you tell her, we can start preparing for your purchases. If you’re not going to purchase it in advance and you want us to do that for you.
Peter D.: You can do that with the office on a conference call or Skype. Get Russell and I your arrival, anything special. Are we going with the double room cause it’s cheaper than a single room?
Russell S.: Single rooms are cheapest, they are small. You can upgrade somewhat and get a double room for single occupancy.
Peter D.: What is the difference, pricewise?
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Brian T.: What is the size, how small?
Russell S.: It is very small. Single occupancy packages, if you take a double room for single occupancy, the four night package is £285, if you take a single room, single occupancy it’s £225. So the difference is equal to about $90.
Randy G.: I suggest we consider that $90 would be a personal choice. From an office expense, we are looking at £225. I would, however, suggest a larger room for two people or larger people.
Peter D.: That’s for four nights, what about the other three?
Russell S.: Same rates.
Peter D.: We book from Saturday night to Saturday night.
Brian T.: No, until Sunday night.
Randy G.: The personal choice is more than $90 then, you would have a different price for the shoulder as well. Maybe twice that? We are there that many more nights.
Russell S.: Let me know, those of you, get that as a benchmark, there will be an uplift if you want a double room for single occupancy, those of you interested in going down that route, let Peter and I know, we will talk to Nicholas, the hotel liaison, he can get us a finalized package.
Peter D.: What’s the difference in the size of beds?
Russell S.: A single bed is 3 foot.
Joy H.: How long is it?
Richard S.: Smaller than a twin bed.
Randy G.: This is about a $200 personal decision if you want to go the other route.
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Richard S.: I wanted to respond to Peter’s inquiry as to when. I plan on making my final decision, I plan to have my airline tickets by the end of the year, so this month. I will actually be posting to our group for any last minute thoughts or decisions as to my choice when I select it, which is probably that I will attend both the convention and Drug Court and really put that out there for our group.
Peter D.: Sooner the better.
Randy G.: Any other open items?
Joy H.: Motion to adjourn.
Terry M.: Second.
Randy G.: Motion to adjourn at 10:44, by Joy, seconded by Terry. All those in favor?
Opposed? We are adjourned.
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