CA WORLD SERVICE BOARD OF TRUSTEES REGULAR QUARTERLY MEETING MINUTES
February 26th – 28th, 2010
FINAL
Since this report is a confidential CA document, for members only, it may contain members’ full names. This usage to facilitate communication within the fellowship was approved by the 1990 WS Conference. Such confidential use does not, of course, violate in anyway our Tradition on anonymity in public communications media (press, radio, TV, etc).
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February 2010
WSBT Quarterly
Meeting Minutes
Trevor: Welcome everyone. This is the third Quarterly. It is February 26, 2010. The time is 7:13 p.m. We are on the record. I’m going to ask Joy to make her motion.
Joy: I make a motion to suspend the rules to change the agenda.
Richard: Second.
Trevor: We have a motion by Joy to suspend the rules to change the agenda, it’s been seconded by Richard, is there any discussion? To change the agenda it does requires a 2/3’s vote but we need to suspend the rules first to do that, so all in favor of suspended the rules to change the agenda? All opposed? Ok that motion clearly passes with a 2/3’s majority vote.
Joy: Motion to move personal sharing to first thing tomorrow morning, February 27th.
Willie: Second.
Trevor: We have a motion by Joy to move personal sharing to tomorrow morning which is Saturday the 27th, it has been seconded by Willie, is there any discussion?
Joy: It’s to give Robert a chance to be able to do personal sharing.
Trevor: Anymore discussion? All in favor? All opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Help me open this meeting with a moment of silence followed by the “We” version of the serenity prayer.
Everyone is doing the serenity prayer.
Trevor: Starting on my right we will go around the room and do roll call.
Nicholas Lynn: ERT
Richard Schafer: Trustee @ Large—currently fulfilling World Service Trustee
Randy Groen: SWRT
Willie Bailey: WSOT
Lawrence Matlock: ASRT
Joy Hutcheson: PSRT
Kim Sherwan: MWRT/WSBT Secretary
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Trevor: Absent at present is Robert Lyle. His plane was much delayed. He’s been on the road for some time since probably 4:00 this morning his time, he’s on his way and should be arriving within the next couple of hours. He will be joining us.
Trevor Scheilbe: PNRT—WSBT Chair
Trevor: I’ve asked Nicholas to the Twelve Traditions.
Nicholas is reading the Twelve Traditions.
Trevor: Thanks Nicholas. We’re going to read and discuss Tradition Eleven, our public relation policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio, television and films, anyone?
Richard: What popped into my head was a lot of people over the last years have been adding “and Internet” with regards to anonymity. It does specify personal anonymity. We do have a public presence as your Trustee @ Large I help represent us in the office at Drug Court professionals, National Association of Drug Court professionals. It has nothing to do with Twelve Step Program and everything to do with public representation. There is a public face to us. In the defense of the Internet we have to be careful about adding that. There’s anonymity to the Internet. There are some words broken, some specifics that shows from networking. It’s an interesting time to facilitate and work for the fellowship of Cocaine Anonymous through these times and through these trials, trying to figure things out and being helpful and be of service.
Joy: The lovely Twelve and Twelve, the last two sentences. This Tradition is a constant and practical reminder that personal ambition has no place in CA. In it, each member becomes an active guardian of our fellowship. I have no anonymity; everyone knows I’m a recovering addict. I don’t care who knows because that’s my place. In certain places I definitely don’t want my picture taken and please don’t put me on the front page of the newspaper.
Trevor: I’ll jump in quick on that. It’s kind of interesting, back home every time we’ve ever tried to do a Tradition or a Concept workshop, it’s pretty well fell flat on its face, the same six or seven people. I chaired a meeting a week ago on Saturday at lunch time and there were about three new people there and one of the topics was anonymity. One of them was the one that brought it up and they right away just started blasting, people are doing this and saying that outside of the meetings, and I shared this in a meeting and it was—it was really cool to see the hunger for the knowledge. The good thing was that there was some people there with enough time and service to be able to talk about how important anonymity is and why we follow it, of course Chairing the meeting I was dying to jump in but couldn’t. It was just really cool to see. I guess for me it’s nice to see the local area back home is growing up a little bit and starting to ask for that knowledge about the Traditions and why we have them. This one is so important for us especially for us as a Board, because I think sometimes we have the appearance outside of this room that we’re running things and we’re the voice of CA.
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Nicholas: Just about the first bit, the attraction rather promotion, we had discussions about that in my home group so I sit back and keep my mouth shut. I fail most weeks. Am I doing the right stuff in my actions, do I have to be the best CA member that I can, yeah. Do I phonetically refrain from promoting? There are new comers that do. There are usually a couple of oldies that help try to keep it together and when I go places do I dress appropriately, do I act like a member not just a Trustee, someone who’s sober, do I remember that when I go into the prisons and talk to a Government Officer, the policeman, the probation officers. You see a lot of people doing attraction in front of the newcomer, and telling the new member what we can do and what we can’t do and then they go out and they seem to forget that sometimes. Sometimes they will promote and I believe its attraction. I just make it attraction because we don’t do promotion. I think that traditions—when I was about a year sober my sponsor gave me a card with a Teddy Bear holding some boxes with a piece string. The string are the Traditions—make my sobriety attractive to other people but not promoted by, when asked tell them how I got were I’m at. I think that’s really important. I’ve seen newcomers walking around with HFC II in the street carrying it around like a shield or something. Do what you do but you might get questioned while you are carrying this book around. It’s a phase that some of us go through. I’ve seen people with the big book Alcoholic Anonymous, the big print one walking around with it. We ought to stick to the Traditions, I think it mentions it in Tradition One, we fail, we have to stick to these principals or we will drink and die or we will use and die.
Randy: A lot of them got those two diff…I mean there tied but they are two different issues, attraction rather than promotion and personal anonymity are two distinct separate issues in that Traditions. I like the idea—Bill wrote a lot of articles after the Traditions were actually published regarding anonymity and regarding Tradition Eleven specifically, he talked how we allowed our friends to do our promoting, news people, this, that. People that saw the good that we were doing and that the promotion of Cocaine Anonymous that are in Twelve Step fellowship just needed to be focused on promoting the good that we do, not the members. They kind of settled into that promotion-attraction that is as long as that promotion was the good things that the fellowship and recover does you can promote the good not the members. I remember that distinctly as part of something that kind of struck me when I was reading it. The other side of the personal anonymity issue, the importance of the word “AT”, the personal anonymity “AT” that level of press, radio, television, and films that when you break the anonymity publicly introducing yourself to represent that is breaking that Tradition above the line and at the line because often times we are so self conscious about anonymity that we break this Tradition below the line as well. Inside of our rooms to continually use your last initial and not allow people to know who you are inside the rooms is actually breaking the Tradition as well, how do people find you, how do people— they wrote a lot of articles about this after the Traditions were published that when you go and introduce yourself inside of a room of Cocaine Anonymous, to keep yourself anonymous to the rest of the people that may need them to help save their lives someday is breaking that Tradition as well. I’m just going to throw this little pitch because it going to come up in the next years or two, if not sooner. I’m not breaking anonymity by taking somebody’s photo at a Convention. I’ve tried studying this as much as I can and if that information—when I show up at a
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Convention I am exposing myself to the rest of the fellowship below the line as a member of Cocaine Anonymous, and any photo and any picture that I take with those people that also did the same is not breaking any kind of anonymity at all. The exposure and the potential or if that photo were to be published then obviously that the breaking of the anonymity is, but the photo itself is not. If I want to make a record of those people that I hang out with at a Convention that have all attended that Convention publicly and because of their attendance announced themselves as drug addicts, that’s below the line. I think the other thing that was interesting in all this research that I did was that trust issue, that what I shared at meetings stays at that meeting. That ends up to be a very, very big deal, people go ok I’m not sharing anything about somebody to my boss or outside or the public but I’m sharing it to you what I heard somebody else say it at a meeting—that will kill the opportunity for people to stay as well.
Kim: When I think of this Tradition I often think about when I first got sober, and of course wanted to yell from the hilltops what I was doing and who I was and what I had to offer you as a result of it. My sponsor reminded me that if I was doing what I should be doing in the first twelve steps, in the only twelve steps I should say, that ultimately there will be a presentation of attraction to other people, and if they want it they’ll ask for it, which also kept me humble and reduced my ego. I remember one of my greatest concerns was my anonymity amongst my son’s world, school, and his peers, and all the parents and such, and again in the beginning it was oh look what I’m doing, and my desire to get in there and help other people. Working this Tradition with my sponsor she kept reminding me that if I’m doing what I should be doing with the steps, ultimately there will be this aura of attraction to some extent. That’s what I take from this Tradition.
Trevor: Thanks Kim, anyone else? Alright we’ll move along. Next item on the agenda is to discuss the rolls of the Trustees and how we can work together as a Board and with the WSOB. I think that for me one of the things, and I can’t point fingers because I don’t know any names, but one of the things that has come across my plate since the last quarter is that there has been, and I’ll say it, some unsubstantiated rumors going around as far as people on this Board talking about others on this Board and or on the Office Board. Like I said I can’t give you specifics because I don’t have them but I’ve heard the rumors. For me, I don’t know for sure that it’s going on, but that for me is right up there with taking what’s said in this room that needs to be private and confidential and taking it outside and there is absolutely no place for it. I’m not pointing fingers and saying its happening because I don’t know that, but I just think that for me that’s a really good reminder of just how sacred it is in this room. We as the WSBT need to be as much in unison as we can be. To me it’s just a great reminder that anything that ever gets said in this room or outside of this room that needs to be confidential is my job to keep that confidence, because it is of vital importance of how we operate as individuals and especially as a team. We’re the service leaders in Cocaine Anonymous and if we can’t trust each other and work together then the fellowship as a whole is in trouble. As far as working together with the WSOB—I think that one of the things that I see sometimes there’s a lack of understanding of what’s going on between the two Boards. I think that that part of it can be improved a little bit. I don’t feel that there is as much animosity now as there was a year or two ago and I think that’s a
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very good step in the right direction, so I think we’re doing well. I just think that we can always do better, so that’s the thing—I think we need to work on our understanding of each other and what each is going through and the different rolls. My challenge to us as a WSBT over the next three months is to try and understand them and what they’re going through and do what we can do to assist them. A special pat on the back to Kim and Richard for all the hard work you guys did with the Delegate mailing. I know how frustrating that was. I can see how much—if it was me I probably wouldn’t have handled it as well as you two did, so you guys are to be commended on doing that and stepping up and doing what needed to be done for the good of the fellowship. Thank you both for doing that. That part of it I think we are doing well, there’s just always room for improvement and I would like us all to just take that one step up and do what we need to do and make it happen. Does anybody else have any thoughts or anything they want to say about that?
Willie: I believe this starts with effective communication and the flow of that communication. I’ve noticed sometime when the communication goes directly it’s taken out of content and I get calls or emails, why is this, why is that, and I try and respond back to the Trustee that may have communicated that and just say just run this through me or go directly to the WSOB Chair, because sometimes it’s not taken in the contents that it was intended. Also, phone calls, phone calls can sometime be misconstrued. I know Richard and I have had phone conversations and I said well I’m getting mixed messages; can we just put it online? That way when it comes to me and it comes in a form of an email, all I do is, and most of you have seen this, I forward the email and CC you as letting you know I’ve made a request to the office in your words so that the information is not miss-communicated. When I communicate to them I want your words communicated, but I believe coming through one person can kind of take away—last week there where phone calls, there where emails directly to the DOO, who was in the process of in the move and I just believe it was miss-conveyed what was trying to come across to her. I replied to Nicholas hey this could be better suited for the Board to Board or to me directly, so we take away any of the thoughts of anything other than questions that were coming and needed to be asked. I just believe effective communication and the flow being properly channeled will take a lot of US against THEM sort of speak, and there are some times and there’s still a feel on the WSOB, especially when it comes around to the reports. One of the statements was we don’t get the reports why do they need to get ours. At that point I just have to say that’s our job and it’s your job to supply reports. Not only to the WSBT but just to the fellowship so that they know that our Directors are actually working. I believe over the past three months I know I have made some strides to take a look at my roll, and working with Richard, and talking to Richard, and directing a lot of things through Tom, I think that’s making a big difference.
Nicholas: I made a point of going to the office last night because I know they are moving in and to say thank you to everybody and it’s important. I know I didn’t do much but I turned up. I think it good. I was talking to some folk. Today you know Yvette doesn’t have a go to and found out from Tom, he came and talked to me openly, me and Yvette did Delegate mailings. A mistake, but we did get it sorted and team helped and we did and this is still a learning thing, but I can go if you get rid of these people it gets rid of it, but we would have to train somebody else. We’ve got to give them a break and love and tolerance is our… I’m glad Willie pulled me out because I
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should have done it the other way around. I CC’d it the wrong way. We do have concerns, but all in all we are communicating a bit better and this WSOB seems to be able to put their hand up. She ain’t perfect but she’s doing good. The response I’m getting from the fellowship in my region is that we are seeing more focus and we seeing more working together, that’s the response I’m getting. When I went to Sweden they said the office is being helpful, it’s really nice and that new lady that we don’t know. She sent an email saying sorry it’s was a bit late. From where I stand they are trying, they aren’t perfect; it’s always going to be ongoing. I think with this move coming up a few people are stressed. There’s quite a lot of panic. I know that Joy’s being going in and trying her best. Just because we try not everyone listens or they don’t hear what we say, it comes out wrong. There is still going to be a bit on THEM and US. I’ve been talking to people in other fellowships; sometimes you don’t have the two Boards to put it together, so they literally are together. We are at the moment are just two, that’s just the way it is. I have put it here in the 5 or 10 year plan, we could look at that. There might be a different approach. Just because history says we don’t allow this doesn’t mean we have to do it. I’m fed up about beating myself up for the fellowship up and the Board and the Office, we are doing alright but we are still making a few mistakes, because we just are. My one thing is that there doesn’t seem to be a “to go” person, Patty Flannigan is gone, there is no to go person. A lot of people are going to have to learn their new job on the fly and they are going to make a few mistakes. I practice love and tolerance, and when I opened that Delegate mailing I thought what the F**k is that. We’ll get there. Of course it shouldn’t have happened but it did. Can we get a recovery, we got a recovery, I don’t know. It can be frustrating, but I don’t feel any animosity. I never felt animosity over the years. I’m that far away that I don’t hear any rumors or get involved in those rumors or anything. I don’t know what’s happening. I image it must be challenging at the Office because one of the questions that I sent was didn’t there use to be five, now there is three. When I spoke to Yvette I said you are doing great because there is only three trying to do the job of five and there is a no “to go” person. You type the information, you’ve taken two of the staff away and still providing service, it probably not a 100%, it’s probably not the best it can be but we but we have been providing the service, the fellowships are still sending in donations da, da, da. I don’t hear conversations among the fellowship where I am of the two Boards aren’t talking to each other, they’re not on the same page and it’s all going wrong. The only thing that I’ve heard is where are the damn book. I believe that is sorted now. That was a big thing. I know hopefully in our discussions we’re going to talk about a new way of doing literature, do a little research with facts and figures. I talked to Trevor about it. I think the Office Board and the Board of Trustees can work on that and we can make a joint statement, none of this just the Board. WE all discuss or WE say this, and I think it would be good. In my communication WE have decided, the Boards have decided. I know it’s supposed to be policy and procedure—the first step starts with WE. I’m going to try and start using that language more, not I but WE.
Trevor: The Chair’s opening remarks—I’ve already made some of them. I think we’re in for a fun quarterly. I’m certainly glad to be back, although health wise I don’t know what it is, I’ve never had a problem coming to the Quarterly’s but the last two times two days before I’ve come I’ve started to have to take lots of medication because it’s been on the verge of being deathly ill. I’m pretty sure it’s stress. I’m getting over it. We’ve got a fair amount of work to get through. I
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don’t see anything that scares me to the point that I don’t think we can get it done. I’m just happy that we’re all together again. One of the other questions that came out of my region three days ago was why do we need to get together so often. It was more towards to why do the Delegates need to go to the Convention, or the Conference, and the Regional Assembly and why can’t they do it all online. I know what we do here and that’s to me why. Sometimes you need that face to face four hours of intense discussion in order to get to what is ultimately in the best interest of CA as a whole, so I’m excited to be here; I’m excited to see everybody again. One of the other things and this will come up in the next in reviewing of the agenda, I would like to see us to be able to be more unified as a Board as far as when and where we’re visible in public. I know that last year at the Convention I felt that it was somewhat disjointed and I don’t think that serves the fellowship. I don’t think that it serves us as a Board working together, so I think that’s something that I would like to see us work on a little bit. It seems to be more unified in that kind of a forum. We’ll talk about it. That’s about all I have for my opening remarks. We’re here and we’re going to get to work. We are going to do it and we are going to go home. Reviewing of the agenda, I do want to add one item.
Joy: Can we delete an item from the Board to Board one? Number 5, we did that already. Do we need to discuss it again?
Trevor: Let me pull my Board to Board agenda up here.
Joy: I would like to remove the Accounting Procedures and Policies off the Board to Board, since they approved it and they’re using it.
Trevor: I would like to get their feedback on that.
Joy: Ok.
Trevor: Because we said them use it and tell us what you think.
Joy: I told Yvette to bring this up. I told Yvette that it would have good flow for her on her QuickBooks on how to do certain things and she was very happy about that. I’ve spent hours on the phone with her, training her with QuickBooks.
Kim: Just for clarification, on my notes it says the WSBT has passed them and has forwarded them the WSOB for approval and that there will be an update at the next—that’s why that’s on the agenda.
Willie: Director Ratification.
Trevor: Do you want that on the Board to Board or on our agenda?
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Willie: It needs to be on our agenda because actually we would like to make mention of it at the Board to Board.
Trevor: Ok, I have two items to add then, 2010.02.05-World Convention Prep and then item 2010.02.06 is Director Ratification and that’s Willie. It need be we can move that out of order if you want to do that before—obviously that’s part of where we’re at now, items of discussion before the Board to Board. Does anybody else have anything else to add to the agenda? The “moving forward” part with the “How it Works” issue, there’s been a lot of stuff back and forth online and there has been a little bit of discussion here. Richard had posted the action plan.
Kim: Why is it under new business and not considered falling under our old business 2008.11.11?
Trevor: It is and we can easily combine the two or remove “moving forward” with “How it Works” because it is the same thing, basically.
Joy: So we are removing 2010.02.04?
Trevor: Yeah. That’s makes 04 the World Convention Prep and 05 the Director Ratification. Is there anything else that anybody wants to discuss or do before the Board to Board meeting tomorrow? Just if anybody didn’t hear earlier or whatever we are having a one on one meeting with Tom tomorrow morning at 11:00 and the Board to Board is at l:30. I’m going to try and keep Tom to an hour so we have an hour and a half for lunch, but you never know. Did you want to do that Ratification of the Director now Willie?
Willie: Yes.
Trevor: Ok. We need a motion to suspend the rules.
Willie: I make a motion to suspend the rules.
Joy: Second.
Trevor: We have a motion by Willie to suspend the rules to have an Office Director Ratification, seconded by Joy, it needs a 2/3’s majority vote, is there any discussion? Hearing none, all in favor? All opposed? That motion carries unanimously. I need a motion for the Ratification.
Willie: I would like to make a motion to accept the Director candidate that was forwarded by the WSOB.
Richard: Second.
Trevor: We have a motion by Willie to accept the WSOB—can I just, for the record have a name.
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Willie: Elisabeth Saldebar and Patrick Potter.
Trevor: We have a motion to approve the Director nominees for WSOB which is Patrick Potter and Elisabeth Saldebar, seconded by Richard, is there any discussion and if so does anybody want to take discussion off-line? Motion was rescinded.
Went off-line for discussion.
Trevor: We are back on the record at 8:39 p.m. on Friday evening. We were off-line briefly discussing the Director Ratification and we have a motion at this time, Richard.
Richard: I would like to make a motion that we request the WSOB to use the channel of the World Service Office Trustee to communicate with the Pacific Regional Trustee and put the announcement out that there is a Director position open to accept resumes for a period of 30 days.
Joy: Second.
Trevor: We have a motion by Richard to ask the WSOB to put it out through the regional news group of the Pacific South region that there is a position on Director @ Large open and accept resumes for a period of 30 days, and that was seconded by Joy, is there any further discussion? All in favor? All opposed? That motion passes unanimously. Is there any other items on the agenda that we want to discuss before the Board to Board? Anything at all? It is a limited Board to Board; it will be Tom, Yvette, and Barry. We will be having an 11:00 meeting, one on nine with Tom.
Joy: No one on nine with Yvette?
Trevor: No.
Richard: Is it the right time to talk about things that have popped into my head?
Trevor: If it requires discussion before the Board to Board then most certainly it is.
Richard : I was traveling back today and one of my thoughts was for two years you have asked for specific documents of accounting to be brought to our Quarterly’s, are those your reports or what was given to you?
Joy: These were given to me.
Richard: Fantastic. That was one of the things that popped into my head and that was going to be by Barry.
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Joy: Oh no. I spend an hour and a half on the phone with Yvette with me on QuickBooks and her on QuickBooks and literally went through section by section on which reports that are requested by us to have. I even told her that she should probably bring it the Board to Board how many HFC I’s we have, how many HFC II’s we have and where they are at and how many are stickered and not stickered. I told her that would be a question that we would be asking her and she needed to have an answer. I felt that she needed to be prepared.
Richard: For two years we have been asking for that. That was one of my thoughts and concerns that I wanted to make sure that if not we ask again in the morning before they arrive. That’s why I wanted to ask tonight.
Joy: I have a full set. I even got last year’s over this year’s so that we know where we stand.
Lawrence: What about the bank statements?
Joy: They were some issues with that but I think that Willie and I have that fixed. She’s trying. We were getting bank statements with no reconciliations; we were get reconciliations with no bank statements. I think we fixed that.
Willie: I believe it does rest with the DOO, but I think that the Treasurer and everybody with hands on really keeps it to where she can’t get that actually documents that we need because they are always being corrected, always being done over by someone else. I believe it falls elsewhere as well.
Trevor: We are on to the next item on the agenda the approval of minutes. Just before anybody starts jumping in, Joy, we will be tabling the 09/12 WSBT/WSOB Board to Board minutes. We are going to table that due to a technical glitch. Does anybody want to make a motion to go on to our two other sets of minutes? Joy?
Joy: I make a motion to approve 09/12 WSBT Quarterly Minutes.
Willie: Second.
Trevor: We have a motion by Joy to approve the 09/12 WSBT Quarterly Minutes, seconded by Willie. Kim?
Kim: Has everyone read them?
~Robert arrived~ Off line for a brief moment~
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Kim: Nothing going to wavier me away from my job and my passion of doing what I do. You know quite frankly I love being the secretary for all you guys. I told you that last Quarterly, but you know what; we all need to do our bit.
Willie: We are back on the record now.
Trevor: We are back on the record at 8:53 p.m. We previously motioned to approve the 09/12 WSBT Quarterly Minutes and at this point, unless there’s an objection, we are going to remove that.
Joy: I withdrawal my motion and motion to table.
Willie: Second.
Trevor: Can we move that online?
Joy: Sure, actually I make a motion to move the approval of the 09/12 WSBT Quarterly Minutes online.
Willie: Second.
Trevor: We have a motion by Joy to move the 09/12 WSBT Quarterly Minutes to online for a period of a week. Willie do you still second that?
Willie: Yes.
Joy: So that would be March 5th.
Trevor: Does anybody want to discuss that? Hearing no discussion, please prepare yourselves to vote, all in favor? All opposed? That motion has passed unanimously.
Joy: Motion to approve 10/01 WSBT Conference Call Minutes.
Willie: Second.
Kim: Has everyone read them?
Everyone: Yes.
Kim: Thank you.
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Trevor: Is there anymore discussion? Hearing none, please prepare yourselves to vote. All in favor of 10/01 WSBT Conference Call minutes? All opposed? That motion has passed unanimously.
Joy: Motion to approve the record of online business from 09/12 to 10/02.
Willie: Second
Trevor: Motion by Joy to approve the record of online business from 09/12 to 10/02, and Willie seconded that, is there any discussion? Hearing none, please prepare yourselves to vote, all in favor? All opposed? That motion has passed unanimously.
Joy: Motion to approve the WSBT Officers reports.
Willie: Second.
Trevor: Motion by Joy to approve the WSBT Officers reports, seconded by Willie, any discussion? Hearing none, all in favor? All opposed? That passes unanimously.
Joy: Motion to approve all Regional Trustee reports plus the World Service Office Trustee and the World Service Trustee acting from Richard.
Willie: Second.
Trevor: We have a motion by Joy to approve the Trustee reports, seconded by Willie, is there any discussion? All in favor? All opposed? That motion passes unanimously.
Joy: Motion to approve the WSBT Sub-committee reports.
Willie: Second.
Trevor: Motion by Joy to approve the WSBT Sub-committee reports, seconded by Willie, is there any discussion? All in favor? The motion carries unanimously.
Joy: Motion to approve the Trustee Conference Committee reports excluding the CAWS Convention reports.
Willie: Second.
Trevor: Motion by Joy to approve the Trustee Conference Committee reports excluding the CAWS Convention reports, seconded by Willie, is there any discussion? All in favor? All opposed? That motion carries unanimously.
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Richard S: I would like it just to be stated by Randy the last thing so there is a proper closure to it at our Quarterly.
Joy: This is the reports.
Kim: No report was filed from last time.
Richard: That’s true. It was done within my written reports, so you’re right to remove it.
Joy: Thank you.
Kim: Motion to approve CAWS 2010 Quarterly report.
Richard: Second.
Trevor Motion by Kim to approve CAWS 2010 Quarterly report, seconded by Richard, is there any discussion? All in favor? All opposed? That motion carries unanimously.
Joy: Motion to approve the CAWS 2011 report.
Randy: Second.
Trevor: Motion by Joy to approve CAWS 2011 report, seconded by Randy, is there any discussion? All in favor? All opposed? That motion passes.
Nicholas: Motion to approve CAWS 2012 report?
Richard: Second.
Trevor: Motion by Nicholas to approve the CAWS 2012 report, seconded by Richard, any discussion? All in favor? All opposed? That motion carries unanimously. Just for the record, I should have stated this earlier because we mentioned it in the beginning that we have now received our MIA Trustee. Robert is now present, so just for the record we will give Robert a chance to do the roll call.
Robert: Robert Lyle-ANRT
Trevor: Welcome Robert. Just so you know, we decided to move personal sharing to first thing tomorrow morning, because we didn’t want to do it without you and we didn’t want you to miss it. We are glad you were able to find your way here in spite of all the problems. We are into Place Marker business items. The first item is 2006.02.20-copyrighted trademark protection. Just a list of where and what we are trademarked for with a special note that we do have one coming up that is due for renewal and I did note that in the legal reports that it is being looked after and will be filed.
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Joy: I haven’t heard anything, I just noted that it was due in the legal report; I’m not getting any updates on where we stand with that at all.
Willie: It has been worked on and went to the attorney to get all the documentation and once the office become activated then that’s Richard and Yvette will sign all the necessary documents and cut a check for it.
Joy: I noted it that it was due in the report because it is important to do.
Trevor: I made sure to bring it up to Willie so he stays on top of it.
Richard: My hand was up because I don’t know if that is correct. I have not been given any information or communication so if you could tell us and report back to all of us what attorney it’s at. I would like a report so we know what attorney it’s at, what the fees are for it, so that the next Board knows what to anticipate.
Joy: That will be a great idea.
Willie: My direction when I reported to the office, to the Paid Director, was that she needed to communicate with Richard, sending it to the attorney, and I was under the assumption that this had been done because when I checked with her I said it was March 1st and it is due in April, where are we at with it. She said as soon as the office becomes activated, because they didn’t get fully activated that day the she…
Richard: If you could send an email to her reminding her of that and CCing me would help.
Willie: Ok.
Trevor: I would say that within two weeks of the close of this meeting, I’d really love to see a report so that we know where we stand.
Richard: And so further Boards know.
Willie: A report from me, but actually I’ll be getting all that information from Richard.
Trevor: It’s totally between you two how you work that out. I’d really love to see online saying this is where we are at, this is the cost, this is the attorney, and this is when we expect to have it back because I do not want the post office box issue to come up. If we can get that within two weeks of the close of this would be fantastic.
Joy: If you need help making the phone call I’m more than willing to help with that. I would hate for us to lose that in the U.S.
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Willie: Can we also make that a Board to Board agenda item?
Trevor: We certainly can.
Randy: This renewal would now be the time to change the logo?
Richard: No, that would be a separate submission.
Randy: Wouldn’t it be easier to do it as part of the renewal?
Richard: You can’t change it and keep the same one in tacked; you have to either let that one go or have two going.
Randy: The simple move of that R would be a creation of a new logo?
Richard: Yes. That was the information that we were given at Conference six years ago by Bob Campbell when he got the information from the attorney and stood of the floor for 20 minutes explaining what was the logo, what wasn’t the logo, and what we needed to maintain. It is still disputed by the previous DOO as to what we could do and couldn’t do and I more trust the legal aspect of the presentation from an attorney, which was Bob at the time. It’s not my opinion, it’s the information that was given to me that the R inside the circle would be an actual separate registered trademark and is not inclusive of ours and it would change ours.
Trevor: So item 14 on the Board to Board agenda is copyright renewal. Is there anymore discussion on this item of Place Marker business? The next item is 2006.08.13-Signature of annual corporate documents, that’s at the fall Quarterly, which was done. We do not need to do it. 2009.05.09-finanical status of CAWS Inc.
Joy: I got a really nice detailed report on, like I said I spent two hours on the phone with Yvette walking her through what reports to print and all of that, so I did get an AP Aging as on December 31, 2009 because of the end of the quarter. We are always a quarter behind. I got an AR and the Balance Sheet. Then I asked for a very specific report and that was for a Profit and Loss from our previous year comparison, because I wanted to see where we stood. In 08 from July to December 08 the net income was a negative $19,000 and July to December 09 is a negative $34,000. That is a huge—almost a $15,000 difference and a net loss. I’m hoping that when we have our Board to Board that I am able to ask Barry why that is and Tom will probably answer it. That’s significant. I know it’s because Seventh Tradition is down, sales of chips and literature are down, book’s sales are down, merchandise shipping is down, Seventh contribution is down, contribution Seventh Tradition donor is down, but royalties are up. I already know what’s up and what’s down but still—we need to work on that.
Richard: I recall a year ago in May that that was actually your projection.
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Joy: Yes it was.
Richard: Do you recall what you based that on? I don’t, based on the finances. When you said it I just recalled that was your projection for this year on where we were going to be. Do you recall what you based that off of and does that ring true from what was reported?
Joy: I already knew because we halted the sales of HFC II until we talked to Alcoholics Anonymous plus now at first not being able to ship them into the European Region until we actually got them stickered that will help in this quarter to bring us up. This office move is going to put us down a little because it’s an added expense that is not budgeted for and replacing Shannon, there was an overlap of payroll expenses. You can tell because I go through these financial statements and if you look over the quarters you can see the trends that happen. I already knew kind of where—I could predict where we’re go to be in the future and yeah we are probably going to be down until we can get Seventh Traditions back up and until we can get rid of that inventory of HFC II that we are holding on to, which is quite a lot.
Richard: The reports that we’ve gotten from—and I’ve heard the same thing—what Willie has brought us is the same thing that I’m hearing at the Office Board is the last two meeting seventh tradition is up.
Joy: It is from the first quarter, it was $26,445 but this quarter through December is $51,666.
Richard: Those are huge jumps for us to be down $33,000.
Joy: You are absolutely right.
Richard: So where’s the 33 grand.
Joy: It’s in the inventory.
Richard: What are our initial sales? What is that first bulk of sales going to generate in revenue?
What monies coming in? What’s that first bulk of UK book’s overseas generating?
Joy: I don’t have that actual number because it is not separated out.
Richard: Do you know what the order is?
Richard: $3,000.
Nicholas: Something like that.
Joy: That’s it?
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Richard: Right. Everyone keeps making it seem like its huge and that’s what I keep thinking is its 3 grand.
Joy: I only know our inventory…
Richard: And I think we eat some shipping on top of that.
Joy: Yes we do. Our inventory right now is $100,000 as of December 31st. We are almost through February so I can’t—I can tell you right now that the $34,000 that we’re down, even with the Seventh Tradition at $51,000…
Richard: 31% of it should be inventory.
Joy: You’re right. You figure this next quarter if we don’t sell—get rid of some of that inventory and get some more of the donor program going, get more of the Seventh Tradition in—I’m kind of shocked that the Pacific South beat the European Region in donations, but I’ve been pushing for Seventh Tradition to come in at every meeting that I go to. I do it online with my Yahoo group, I do it the Assemblies, and I do it at the Caucus. I have promoted the Send in your $6.
Richard: That you very much for going through the reports and having the answers from the last couple of years.
Randy: We already have these books in inventory, why is there a cost associated with those books for the quarter?
Joy: There isn’t a cost, they are sitting in inventory.
Randy: What did we spend $80,000 on this quarter then that we didn’t spend $80,000 on in the quarter before? When I hear inventory I’m thinking, we already had those. They are bought and paid for. That can’t be an expense…
Joy: They are sitting in a warehouse.
Randy: The charge of this warehouse isn’t turning us upside down. These books are already bought and paid for.
Joy: You’re right.
Richard: It was a huge charge for that warehouse. It was related to our previous DOO.
Randy: But that warehouse charge has been the same every quarter.
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Joy: No, now it’s different. It’s a totally different warehouse, now it’s in Simi Valley.
Supposedly per the DOO’s current report, if you read it it’s in Simi Valley.
Randy: Where are the big ticket expenses for this quarter that adds up to $80,000? It’s not in inventory unless we purchased something and we haven’t purchased inventory.
Joy: Legal fees have gone up, the outside services that we didn’t have last year…
Richard: Amounting to what?
Joy: $2,090. There is an additional $3,800 of lease/purchase of equipment, which I believe are computers, of course salaries went down…
Richard: We can’t have computer expenses a year later. Those are a year old.
Joy: I understand that. There’s $3,800 between July through December…
Richard: You’ve gotten the information, maybe bad information but you have information.
Joy: I’ve got information. Outside professional, there was none last year in this time frame and this year it is over $6,000.
Randy: Are our expenses truly different for this quarter than prior—because we only talk about Seventh Tradition. We have two quarters in which we have received major money.
Joy: Believe it or not, our expenses are less by $20,000.
Randy: Than last quarter?
Joy: I just did a comparison between July to December 2008 to July to December 2009.
Randy: So our expenses are going down.
Joy: Our expenses are $20,000 less than they were.
Randy: The only reason that I just bring this up is that as we look at pictures of quarters and we always talk about the Seventh Tradition, Seventh Tradition, dah, dah, dah. Seventh Tradition is not our revenue. We had this one quarter where we get this big chunk of change and unless that is somehow either allocated evenly throughout the other four which might be the most honest picture of how we are doing quarter by quarter.
Joy: This is six months though. July 1st to December 31st.
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Randy: But if you still have that May Convention that puts $60,000 in the cougher, if you don’t spread that out throughout the other 3 quarters you don’t have an actuate picture of where we stand.
Joy: I haven’t included Convention in here at all. This is just typical expenses.
Randy: So to a certain degree our expenses have been recognized as going down almost—from last year.
Joy: It is $10,000 a quarter that it went down, but then again our income went down almost $35,000, and if you divided that by two it’s $17,500. So we still are spending almost $8,000 a quarter.
Randy: Yeah. To ready look at these financials would be to try to project the time frame of when these certain events, because we have events, if there was a Region Convention that traditionally paid us in December and they didn’t pay us until January—we have to be careful not to freak out on December’s things.
Joy: Oh I’m not freaking out.
Randy: I’m just talking in general. Some allocation of where we are—we’re reducing expenses. We believe the Seventh Tradition is picking up, now whether we’ve got and event or whether we got some other stuff, I don’t know. I guess without all of that kind of analysis it’s hard to say ok are we doing better. We are here to reduce expenses, maybe we’re not doing it enough but we’re on our way. Seventh Tradition has picked up. I don’t think its doom and gloom. We are looking—as far as I’m concerned and from what’s going on a little bit in Arizona and I know what will take place in Europe and I think Milwaukee going to have—I think we are running into, at least, a three year World Convention string that should be fairly successful financially, extremely successful. I think the news is brighter than maybe it’s been in a couple of years.
Joy: I’m not saying it’s not.
Randy: Ok.
Joy: Richard was right that I projected this is where would be at this time. Hopefully when we get to June 30th and we get to the Conference and we bring the financials forward we can say we are not in the red as we thought we would be. I still predict us to get to the Conference and we will still be between 10 and 15 thousand in the red, even with the Convention pinching pennies left and right.
Richard: And I anticipate that we can’t pinch pennies as we have in the past because we’re going to have a new experience with a new person, learning, and communicating. It’s going happen.
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Joy: That’s right. Now that we actually getting AP and AR reports we can ask some pertinent questions as to why we have AR that is over 90 days old.
Randy: I know one of them.
Joy: To me they are minute compared to…
Randy: I got $109 of it.
Joy: No, this one is $194.50 and it’s the IE 21 is the…this is just through December.
Randy: When I said I got $109 of it, I have an individual in my region who is disputing a credit card charge and we are working through that at the moment. My region is carrying $109.
Joy: That wouldn’t be part of the AR. What will happen is it will be a refund and it will lower income, it’s not AR. Account Receivable is people that haven’t paid at all.
Willie: To hopefully answer that, there was something with the Denver Convention that someone that we were billed and…
Richard: Signers, signers.
Willie: Yeah. We were billed and the person has been contacted and there’s been no communication since.
Joy: That would be AP.
Willie: Ok.
Joy: The difference between Accounts Receivables and Accounts Payable, Accounts Receivables is income to us and Accounts Payable are expenses that we pay out. So if somebody has an invoice that they sent to CAWSO to be paid, that would be part of Accounts Payable. We are ok on that.
Willie: That’s what it was, we paid the invoice.
Randy: We paid it and trying to get it back?
Richard: No, we finally paid it. We had two outstanding invoices since then.
Joy: I wasn’t talking Accounts Payable; I was talking Account Receivable because the reality is we should not have Accounts Receivables over 60 days unless it’s in dispute.
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Richard: That’s why I asked what the amounts were, nothing over a $1,000, right?
Joy: No. The total amount is $1,800. If we anything over 60 days they need to be on the phone. Those are just questions that we could ask with the Board and they should have answers for us. We are supposed to make sure that the finances are—the office is running the way it should financially.
Nicholas: The figures that you were looking at, what was the net down, what were we down?
Joy: It’s a negative $34,156.67.
Randy: Do you have figures for the last year’s same six months?
Joy: Negative $19,189.29.
Randy: Was the year before for the same six month period?
Joy: Yes.
Richard: And that was when I said she’d projected where we’d be and she did. Back then I think she rounded that we were around $17,000 and she anticipated that it would be over 30.
Nicholas: So are we discussing the discrepancy between the first and second quarter?
Joy: Yes.
Nicholas: That’s what we’re talking about?
Joy: It’s not bad; the difference is only $15,000. We knew the economic times that we were going to be down in our income. We had already projected that. We already knew that was going to happen. They actually have lowered the expenses but not a level that they should have, I believe.
Nicholas: So when you say they?
Joy: The office on spending.
Nicholas: They are down two members of staff; we had five now it’s three.
Joy: Correct.
Nicholas: We are now going to go to cheaper rent.
Joy: Correct.
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Nicholas: So we are still cost cutting.
Joy: Yes it is.
Nicholas: So here’s the thing, I don’t feel worried and you don’t look worried. You are just talked the facts here?
Joy: Correct.
Nicholas: It’s like what Randy said the UK would put in a big chunk, the World would put in a big chunk, so the next Quarterly would be much more positive.
Joy: Then we’ll get the financial picture that’s through March 31st of this year and March 31st of last year.
Nicholas: So when we get to Conference the Conference will see.
Joy: That’s right.
Nicholas: That the Boards and the office are making great effort.
Joy: And hopefully before we get to Conference we’ll actually get a fiscal year report and I’ll ask for a year over year comparison again, so that way we could literally—we as a Board can say we have saved money and we are where we projected we would be.
Nicholas: That’s what we need to say, there’s nothing to worry about. We’re getting there.
Joy: Yes we are.
Nicholas: So as long as we get there. It may be taking a bit, but we are getting there, right. I just wanted to make sure.
Richard: I wanted to mention and for you to validate that because of your reporting time frame that you are looking at that it did not include the large contribution that came in from UK in January?
Joy: Correct.
Richard: And what I referenced was the WSOB meeting where the last two months were reporting that the Seventh Traditions are up.
Joy: I tried to get up to January 31st, but I never did.
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Richard: We are talking 12k on one of them, the UK’s.
Nicholas: I don’t think it was that big.
Willie: No. It was six.
Richard: Oh there’s another one that’s came in and they tallied up to…
Nicholas: 10,000 something.
Richard: And then there was another large on that came in, that’s where I got 12 from. We had some big contribution at the end of January.
Joy: And we also got a $5,000 anonymous donation.
Willie: And Arizona made a large donation.
Randy: So we’re not in that bad of shape then.
Joy: No we’re not.
Richard: We need to address whether the reporting spectrum of what’s she’s looked at, but there are things that aren’t accounted for that…
Trevor: The bottom line for me is that we are a bazillion times ahead of where we were when I came on the Board three and a half years ago as far as reporting and understanding.
Joy: You are absolutely right.
Willie: I would just like to say we have not had to entertain a transfer in several months. Every time they have a stack of checks, so do we have the money, are we going to need some, and these donations came in that’s prevented the office or the WSOB from questioning any of large transfers and I think that is a huge step in saying that we are now managing a lot better without going to our prudent reserve.
Trevor: Anything else on this item?
Joy: No, I’m done.
Trevor: Next we will move into old business markers-the NADCP, Richard and Robert. Is there anything new to report?
Richard: I requested over the last month that the DOO provide me with some information. I had some concerns because floor space has to be allotted for. I am told that the room reservations
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were completed, so we have room reservations secured and that the office manager DOO is working with them on for our acting floor space. I specifically mentioned that we are normally within the proximity of AA and NA booths, so that we are over in the area that we’ll fit in. People might be going along the ways of looking at the options through Drug Court of recovery. That’s where we are at. I’ve been reported that we have room reservations; I have not had the actual reporting that we’re solidified and where we are on the floor. The DOO has communicated that that is what she is currently coordinating.
Robert: I will be attending but I will be not staying in the hotel up there, I will commute up every day, seeing the fellowship in my region.
Willie: Who is actually going to be responsible for this setup?
Richard: The office?
Willie: The reason why I’m asking this question is because generally the Paid Director stays at the Convention an extra day to help in closing the event. That would have her flying out on Wednesday, which I believe is when the Drug Court starts. Possibly as the WST you could actually be asked to stay that Tuesday after the Convention to help out.
Richard: If you all ask me to stay as a Board, I would. I’m not paid to do that. We have a Paid Director that is supposed to do setups, teardowns. That’s what’s been done in the past. I’m happy to help if you all ask me to. I will be coming off of our World Convention and followed up with another trip out to Boston. It comes with the job and the territory but the extra work days, unless you all ask me to stay to tear-down…
Willie: I’m not talking about Drug Court I’m talking about from the transition from the Convention to Drug Court. The Paid Director generally stays that extra day to close out.
Richard: A day after Convention?
Willie: Yes, a day after the Convention. Drug Court starts that Wednesday; the Paid Director won’t be getting in there until late Wednesday.
Richard: Yeah there is setup that has to be done. Have you had a conversation with her about this?
Willie: Yes, I asked her the same questions that I am asking here, reminding her who will be setting up.
Richard: The office.
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Willie: But if the office is going to be setting up and the Paid Director is the only one attending…
Richard: I would like to hear her schedule then. I’m concerned if she has not looked at the dates, times, and flights and has not brought it up.
Willie: I asked the question because I asked her, who’s going to stay back that extra day for the Convention, who’s going to setup for Drug Court?
Randy: And the answer was?
Willie: She—I don’t know. That’s just the reason why I am asking who’s going to do the setup?
Kim: This has been done before, for the last four years, right?
Richard: The dates might have not overlapped so closely.
Kim: But then it happened the last two years.
Trevor: I know that’s it always has been very close.
Kim: It happened the last two years that it was back to back.
Randy: Not on the same day, ended and starting.
Kim: The Convention and that Drug Court back to back?
Richard: Within a week, not the same day.
Kim: Ok. My first year, Bobby flew from Salt Lake to Kansas City.
Trevor: She had an extra big bag because she was going.
Richard: I recall that. Last year I didn’t have to. There was a break. That’s my reference.
Willie: There was a week.
Kim: A week difference.
Willie: Yeah.
Kim: I think that there has to be some attention and some proactive planning in regards to this and certainly now that we are now within two months of the Convention, I certainly think that it
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hasn’t previously been looked at, the schedule needs to be looked at and has to be narrowed down. We close on Monday at 1:00 or noon, we have 12 hours, there is a Convention committee, there is in our guidelines for our Convention, a tear-down, and wrap-up program, we have to secure them and then get the DOO, she needs to get out there on Tuesday. Now if there is some hint of that not being able to occur, based on our discussion on the Conference call is there someone else that needs to do that?
Willie: The reason that I’m bringing it up, I just don’t think it was thought about. I believe that since Drug Court will be brought here that I would just make sure that maybe that can be in your communication with her, knowing that typically what the schedule has been and now that it’s going to be setup, it needs to be setup. Maybe there should be some communication on freeing her up and then the Treasurer and the Chair actually stays back at the Convention.
Trevor: Trevor: My take on it is, what I would suggest is the two of you sit down and say to Tom and Yvette this is what we’re looking at and what can we propose to make this work. This is what needs to occur, we can tear-down the one while we are setting up the other, how can we make this all work? It’s obviously a concern so let’s work towards a solution. I think that if Tom stayed an extra day if need be with the advanced warning before anybody books flights, I’d be willing to stay an extra day and help tear down whatever, but we need pull the trigger and get it going. Let’s do a solution. Tell them this is the dates, this is the concerns, how do we work it. If Yvette and Tom are the people—Yvette is the one that’s gotta do it and Tom’s her direct overseer then let them work it out. Is everybody cool with that?
Kim: I have one concern with one statement you made, that this hasn’t been thought about, and I assume you mean by the DOO, Yvette.
Willie: That’s what I mean.
Kim: Well that concerns me.
Willie: It hasn’t been thought about, not only by the DOO, it hasn’t been brought up at any of the WSOB meetings when you talk about Drug Court, when you talk about closing up the Convention. So this overall Drug Court in a transition, I haven’t heard it at any of the meetings the scheduling and how it’s going to go.
Kim: Well that should be strategic thinking and planning and the ability to organize and put forth a time schedule by the Director of Operations.
Willie: Ok.
Kim: If you’re expecting anyone else on the WSOB to pick up the ball and say here’s what you need to do or if there is some miss understanding the questions need to be asked by the DOO and put forth strategic thinking of how to plan it and organize it and execute it.
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Willie: What I expect, I expect a little bit more help and guidance from the TAL.
Kim: Being Richard, talking of and to.
Willie: And assisting in that having one year, but at least she has had some experience with that.
We have a new person in a position that had no experience with that. That’s the only reason that
I’m bringing it up, are we giving this person assistance?
Richard: That’s out of line. I’ll tell you right now, not personally, as far as TAL request, that’s out of line. I talked to her and I told you guys when I talked to her in December about this and what she was supposed to be lining up and who she supposed to be communicating with and the fact that she hasn’t follow through does not fall on me. I apologize for raising my voice. The communication with the TAL, absolutely, what she is supposed to do is be reporting to me, where I’m supposed to be, at what time, where I’m staying. That’s what the office is supposed to be reporting to me. When we had our previous DOO that came in, that was the information that I provided you, that was the information that Bobbie provided. I looked at the reports. When I asked Bobbie what about Drug Court the information that I got, the office sets it up because they have all the contacts and communications because the TAL rotates, so all we are supposed to do is show up and be a representative of Cocaine Anonymous. That’s what I did, that’s what I know how to do. I have no idea about the interaction; I don’t get any of the communications or emails from Drug Court. All of that centralizes at the office.
Randy: Does she have access to body’s in the fellowship at Boston to go help setup a booth, which might take someone five or six hours by themselves, but it takes a couple of hours…
Robert: That request hasn’t been made.
Richard: The answer is no.
Robert: Bruce has offered to help.
Randy: Which is, no we don’t have body’s there that would help us.
Robert: No we haven’t asked.
Richard: It’s actually on a Convention floor and with the contracts of what you’re working with in a Convention. There are only certain people that are allowed on the floor when they are doing the setup. You’re familiar with Convention and stuff, because we are an electric booth they have to be tied to the labor. There’s only certain people that are going to be able to have that authority and communication to do the setup, that’s the people that have been working with them.
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Trevor: Just for clarification, on the Board to Board agenda for tomorrow, item 11 is the 2010 Convention-staff and item 12 is NADCP.
Richard: Thank you for bringing it up Willie.
Trevor: It is very valid for us to talk about that. We need to get all this out tomorrow when the people in the room are the ones that we’re saying should have pulled the trigger.
Richard: I thank him for bringing it up. I want to be as loud with that as I was with the other one.
Trevor: The next item, we’re going to jump the TEC and go to Canadian Region. The update on the Canadian Region is that I will be attending the next Great Canadian Convention in Winnipeg, Manitoba in June. I’m really, really, hoping that Kim could come, seeing how that’s her region.
I’m going on my own dime because I’m Canadian and I want to. Kim I’ll authorized that expense so if you want to join me that would be fabulous. We’re going to talk about it some more. It’s still in long term planning; we’re still working on it.
Richard: Would give me a written report on that this time. I know you’ve done verbal reports the last couple of times that you discussed it, would you firer me off where it was, who was there, so that I can start putting that in the long term planning.
Trevor: I can do that.
Richard: Thank you.
Robert: The whole thing with the Canadian Region is bigger than the Canadian Region; we have to look at realignment of all the regions, and until that’s in that whole mix. We can’t afford another region.
Trevor: You are very correct, and that’s part of the discussion in long term planning has been—it would probably mean—and this is just me off the top of my head—it would mean combining Atlantic North and the Atlantic South as they presently are excluding any part of Canada, which would then become part of the Canadian Region. We have to look at the whole picture. It would mean combining two of the others or something.
Robert: You have to realign all the regions because the Pacific North is going to change. I think it’s important that the folks up in Canada realize that it affects the fellowship as a whole.
Trevor: Which is why this is “Trevor speaking” and I will say on the record and when I read this later I will not be changing this because it has been my opinion since day one, I do not believe that the best interest of Cocaine Anonymous are served by a creation of a Canadian Region and I’m always thought that and I possibly always will think that. I like the way that it is at present, I think it works, and it works well. I am not in any way, shape, or form for this moving forward.
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I’m only doing it because it was asked of me, on the record. Robert brought up a great point. It affects everything, it really does.
Robert: The only region it won’t affect is…
Trevor: Yeah, Joy and Nicholas.
Robert: It affect Nicholas too, it could.
Trevor: You never know. Just looking forward on the agenda, the two items that I think could be quite time consuming are TEC, with any review of questions, if you guys have anything like that, which I heard and suspect from some comments that you might have stuff for us to look at. I would prefer not to tackle that at 10:00 at night. It’s just me. The other one is the HFC, the publication overseas. I think that’s something that I know for everybody overseas is a huge issue and I would like—I know that Nicholas has done some research and the folks over there have done some research. They have some firm prices in place and I would like us to seriously look at it. My goals is to when I roll off the Board, I would like that agreement in place and have working. I don’t see as being a problem. If we have the prices and people in place to do it, we have the template with what they are doing in Quebec. We should just follow that and let them do it in England because I think it could work. It would hugely benefit the fellowship. Those are the two that I see as being really big and require lots of discussion. Would anybody object at this point having a bio break? I was going to say would anybody object to shutting it down for the night and then reconvene at 9:00 in the morning.
Richard: Do you think we will stay on schedule with that?
Nicholas: I would like to do a bit more.
Trevor: Ok, I’m cool with that too.
Joy: Then can we have a bio break?
Trevor: Take a 10 minute bio break, because I realize we’re on the 5th floor.
Trevor: Back on the record at 10:10 p.m. Next item of business is TEC update.
Kim: I’m Kim your TEC Chair.
Everyone: Hi Kim.
Kim: I’ve requested again, just to give you all a marker, that we need your TEC Delegate information as soon as you have your Assemblies, as well as your candidate information. It’s imperative that you send electronic copies of resumes of the open positions. Who they are and
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what positions they are. Please send them both to Joy and I. Joy and I have reviewed the questions for the three open positions.
Richard: You have all the ones from me, correct?
Kim: Yes. Joy is updating the excel file on a regular basis.
Randy: When I hear that I’m like I don’t have anybody except the TEC Delegate. I think you have that.
Kim: I have your TEC Delegate information and I also have your Assembly, no…
Randy: We don’t anyone up for election.
Kim: You still need a slate.
Randy: Right and I think you have that.
Joy: We have your slate.
Kim: I have your slate.
Joy: Roy does not have an email address.
Randy: I’ve talked with him and he believes he does. That’s kind of weird.
Kim: Well, you know who you are. If you haven’t had your Assembly then you need to get your information to us, right? You have to understand no matter whether or not you have an open position we need a slate. The slate goes before the Conference to be approved. As I was saying, Joy and I have reviewed the questions for WST, WSOT, and the Regional Trustee. There seems to be a great deal of discussion regarding hard copies, electronic copies, so needless to say we’ve not sent anything nor have we made anybody any copies. Overall minimal changes that we see to the Regional Trustee questionnaire, there is the one question that we are just adding some pertinent words and then we do have some questions that we need some help with. As far as the World Service Office Trustee I think I posted to everybody that there was discussion that everyone was going to attempt to bring a question to us. I didn’t receive anything, so Joy and I have added some questions that we can go over once we go off-line. I will ask the World Service Trustee—we went through it and we had some questions that we thought we would delete and then add a couple in place of that.
Joy: We need help with wording for one.
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Kim: So with that I would request that we would go off the tape to discuss these briefly. I don’t think it should take too long.
Trevor: Ok, go off-line.
Kim: As a Board we reviewed all the questions for the Regional Trustee WST and WSOT and we’ve made some changes and some revisions. We will get the questions rewritten and updated. Joy has offered to copy everything and prepare stuff so that I won’t have to transport them. Basically we’ll set up the folders on sites with the assistance of whoever is available. Actually we will probably have to do some of that prior to Milwaukee, so as soon as we can get that information so we can potentially do some of these interviews in Milwaukee it would be great. As soon as you have your information from your Assembly please give it to us. I think that’s it. We are all good to go. It will be a busy time.
Trevor: Thank you guys very much. Are there any other questions for Kim and or Joy on the TEC? I have one. Do you anticipate at all a ball park number of interviews that you might like to get done at the Convention?
Kim: We can only do then once we know who the candidates are and contact them to see who will be at the Convention. Some people might not be there.
Joy: I already know one person that won’t be at the Convention.
Trevor: Do you have a goal, just a ball park? Ok.
Joy: Not enough information to answer that question.
Randy: So at this time we are not ready to discuss when?
Trevor: No, because we don’t have a full list of who and what and whatever then we can’t.
Kim: Keep in mind that obviously the Quarterly is going to start maybe Sunday, Monday. The Convention starts on Thursday and unless a candidate is in town prior to Thursday we are going to have to do maybe a few interviews during the Convention. We have the Board room for the whole week. Potentially we’ll have to schedule once we know, we’ll schedule it during the Convention, probably most likely Thursday, at the latest that Friday if somebody’s coming in on Friday, like we did in Salt Lake City.
Trevor: It is 5 till 11 on Friday evening. We have reached the old business point, if there are no objections we are going to shut it down for the night and convene for breakfast at 8:00 and hopefully we can get over to the coffee green room place, if so we’ll come back and get back into the meeting.
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Joy: Motion to adjourn until tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m.
Richard: Second.
Trevor: Any objections? Ok, we are adjourned.
Trevor: The time is 4:15 p.m. We’re back online for the first time today. At this part of the agenda we have been off-line since we got reconvened this morning do our personal sharing which was moved from last night to this morning to allow Robert to be here and participate. Then we had the Board to Board, which took until the present time. At this point we are at the item of our agenda of old business. We have many, many items to get through between now and when we are done tomorrow. I have had several requests to go and eat. I know that most of you are hungry, I am too. I don’t, with the exception of maybe the first item which is the CA helpdesk site, which is once again nothings gone on because we don’t have a web servant yet, that item is now we will keep updating it again, that will remain on the agenda. Everything else that I see on there, well some of it the sale of HFC II outside the U.S., we already got that action plan in place and its happening so that’s pretty easy. I don’t anything real quick that we can get through before dinner.
Willie: Maybe the motion that Richard plans to bring we may be able to address that.
Richard: I forgot. What was I going to bring?
Trevor: I believe that you were probably going to bring some that…
Richard: Oh yeah. I don’t think we should do that before dinner.
Trevor: At this point I’ll be honest, I’m tired, I’m hunger, and I’m a little bit punchy right now. I would be most in agreement to having a couple of hours dinner break, go somewhere descent for dinner where still only half are going to get in. Eat and get out. When we come back and get hammering at it. If nobody objects to that we are going to go for a dinner break at 4:18 p.m.
Trevor: Welcome back everyone. The time is 6:50 p.m. Please help me open this session of the WSBT’s third Quarterly meeting. Let’s start out with the Serenity Prayer. We are on old business. The first item of old business is 2008.04.14-the CA helpdesk site. That will remain in place until such time as we get a web servant and we can get somebody back on getting that helpdesk site up. It’s close but it still needs some work. We need a web servant in place to do that. Next item of business is 2008.11.11-AA permission-status of the document. Where we stand right now, I’m just going to speak quite frankly, is that I’ve done very little digging but I have asked a few people of what I’ve been told is without the original document nobody in the world that has anything to do with authentication will botch it. We don’t have the original, we can’t get the original, and every time we try, we get told well I don’t have it but I might be able to get it if we have the archive thing in place so if you agree to put the money in we can get. Or
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something along those lines, so we don’t have it and we can’t get it. As far as I’m concerned, unless the original turns up somewhere down the line, I don’t see that we could do a whole lot more with this. AA has given us their answer, said what to do, what not to do, and we’ve told the fellowship that’s we are doing. We can leave it on the agenda and keep talking about it but I see no point unless we have the original, if and when we ever come across it, then sure.
Joy: Where are we on picking up the documents?
Randy: The last time I talked to Reggie was about two weeks ago and he was getting out of town again, it didn’t sound like just for a couple of days. I called him again, because I knew it would come up, and I left him a message on Tuesday.
Joy: So we’re all going to Arizona when this guy is back in town, and we are going to show up at his door.
Randy: Reggie has told me on the phone that he sent nothing to Patrick and is not involved in the letter. What Reggie has is just some memorabilia and some stuff. From conversations he had with Richard and with myself he’s willing to give them and turn them over. I’m just keep knocking on his door and eventually we’ll get all his stuff.
Willie: Where does he live?
Joy: Arizona.
Willie: Somewhere close to you?
Randy: Yeah he is in Phoenix.
Joy: I do know that a prior Trustee has talked about getting his archives also.
Trevor: When I spoke to Bob on the phone, he and whoever he was dealing with, they have the same concerns that we’ve had regarding the dates on the letters of being exactly the same as some that went to Jack. The signatures being identical, back then that might have been running computers with word processors but they were probably doing typewriters and typewriters from the same lady, from the same office, within three weeks of each other, is probably going to be the same style and font and everything, and the letters weren’t. They have pretty much the same concerns that we have, I expressed that you all you guys in an email.
Kim: What is the position on this Board in reference to the fellowship that is aware of this document and the potential questions that are going to come to us?
Randy: The individual that produced this document sent it out, has he refused to tell us who it came from?
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Trevor: What he said to me on the phone was that it came from—it was a very long conversation that had many twists and turns and it was hard to follow. I tried to jot down notes, but it was hard to follow—what I believe he said was it came from the lawyer that is in possession of Johnny’s stuff, and Johnny’s sister is holding on to it because she believes—she’s contesting it, what’s happening with it—because she believes it’s worth a lot of money, a substantial amount of money.
Richard: That’s not the story that I got. I got a story that it was in stuff that could have come from the office, in a pile of stuff that he was going through for archives.
Randy: I would like us to keep requesting the name of the individual where this document originated. The idea that it’s the lawyer of, or out of a box, or a friend of a something, or whatever reason we can’t find out, but as the World Service Board of Trustees I think that we absolutely have the right to know the individual originating this document.
Trevor: I agree with you.
Randy: I guess maybe I’m saying this because I don’t believe that necessarily—we have taken a position that we want it to be delivered to us and that’s not going to happen. It hasn’t happened until now. This individual I do not believe will produce that document on his own, so we are asking him who we need to ask for that document. Without that document I agree with what’s been said today, this is in the sand. I don’t see away outside of—not only embarrassing ourselves more than likely, but I look at an answer from AA that they have no record of this document as still being unfulfilling At that time and that year, way back then, if it’s not in their files doesn’t mean it didn’t exist. They don’t have a record of it still leaves the question to its authenticity. I think that the odd of embarrassing ourselves to them is still too great. This came from someone in the idea that we cannot get the individuals name from the current Chair of Archives frustrates me.
Lawrence: I think we are asking for something in writing for the individual who sent us the copy of the document, not just word of mouth. Trevor spoke to them about it so we would have a record of contacting the individual for the Conference.
Richard: And reference of the previous conversation.
Kim: I forwarded the original and there was a question as to if we asked for the original, I forwarded that on to him with his response to us. Here are my concerns, that email that he sent back us was copied to people outside of himself and this Board. There are people that are aware of the document and I concur that this document cannot be validated or obviously we can’t validated it or the authenticity of it without the original, but I’m fairly sure that there are members of this fellowship that are going to hold us to a standard at the Conference and say well what did you do? We couldn’t get it so we just figured it was dead in the sand. Then they’re
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going to say well did you go to AA and ask if they had it in their archives? You know what, I’m not afraid to be embarrassed, I’m not afraid to ask for help. If I had felt that way when I got sober I probably wouldn’t have gotten sober. I trust and have faith that AA is not going to sit back and go these foolish CA people; they came to us and ask us if we had this in our archives, and then they go to their archives and just say yes here it is. No we don’t have it, but we have the answer to that question when our fellowship asks us because I get questions about this on a regular basis from my region. We’re afraid that we are going to be embarrassed? I’m going to be embarrassed to stand in front of that Conference floor and say yeah but we couldn’t get the original so it’s just dead in the sand, we’re just moving on, moving forward, it’s a dead issue, we took it off our agenda. I’m in favor of at least asking them if they have this piece in their archives. I understand that potentially they’ll say no and then the argument we be well maybe they just didn’t put it there. Maybe they just never had it. It’s an avenue that I don’t know why we’re afraid to go down, why we’re afraid to ask. If we don’t inform at least our Conference Delegates of what’s going on, it’s just going to get worse. For me, if AA says they don’t have them in their archives, then I good to move forward. We have done everything that we said we were going to do. Quite frankly, that doesn’t mean that the fellowship that we serve isn’t going to ask us to do something else. Should we let this carry on for another year potentially, or wrap this up and have an answer our fellowship, my fellowship, at the Conference when they ask us questions.
Trevor: First off I’m not scared of going to AA and asking them. I stated in a couple of emails, I have no problem phoning them up. I met three individuals, two of which work there every day, I can phone up either one of them and say this is what we’ve got, can you help us?
Randy: Tom’s going to be there Tuesday.
Trevor: That the other, Tom’s going there on Tuesday. If knowledge in the fact that their decision, even if they did have it, has potentially changed and they are no longer willing to grant permission that’s their prerogative too, but I’m not scared to do it. I was not and never will be of the mindset that I’m the Chair and I’m going to do it because I think that it’s right. This is still a Board and that’s why I never did it even though I have wanted to. I think that one of my big concerns is—I agree with Kim, if this year at the Conference they want to get mad and yell and scream and jump up and down, whatever, they have done it before, and we are still here and we are still sober and doing the work. I’m sick of dealing with this issue and I just want a resolution, one way or the other. Richard had an action plan that he made out and I pasted on a Word document. To me, I would have no problem of doing a double edge and sending an email off to Patrick and saying we have officially request the name of the individual that you believe to have provided this document, as well as contacting AA at the same time. We are coming at it both ways and I think that with that I think that we can wrap it up relatively painlessly at this point because it has certainly been like pulling teeth. One way or the other I want this thing hammered out. My feeling is I don’t want to leave—this is like one of those things that I don’t want to just leave for you guys when Lawrence, Nicholas, and myself roll off. I would like to see it put to bed by then. That’s kind of where I’m coming from.
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Willie: I make a motion that we contact AA regarding the letter and contact Patrick with the person who provided him with the copy.
Joy: Second.
Trevor: We have a motion by Willie to contact, both Alcoholics Anonymous World Services as well as Patrick requesting verification and or information as to the validity of the letter and who supplied the said letter to him. That was seconded by Joy. For clarification I’m going to offer myself as the person, I will CC Kim on everything that I send out, but I will volunteer myself to do that. I’m going to have a very quiet week at work this week, in fact three of the days are going to be nonexistent, and so I will have time on Monday to contact both. I will let you guys know as soon as I hear anything. Is there any discussion?
Robert: Should we email Patrick or are we going to talk to him on the phone?
Trevor: I’m actually going to phone Patrick because he stated in his email don’t email me because I only check them once a month, phone me, so I’m going to phone him and say I’m officially requesting and if you want it in writing provide me with an email address and or mailing address and I will get it sent out priority so it’s two days…
Randy: Can I ask that after you finish that conversation to send an email to us and to him that says per our conversation today the WSBT has formally requested…Put into writing to him even with a phone call.
Trevor: That is exactly the kind of letter that needs to happen so we can put in our official report. Is there anymore discussion? One of my arguments in favor of contacting AA is that it is my belief that they are having been around longer they are more sophisticated organization with some of their archives and I believe that if this letter is in fact from them that they will have some record of it. That’s my hope and belief; I don’t know that for sure. Is there any other discussion? All in favor? All opposed? Motion has passed unanimously. So I will contact Valerie and Patrick on Monday and I will let you guys know. I probably want to phone both of them and then follow up with emails. Also, to avoid any embarrassment to Tom, I’m also going to phone Tom before I do this so that he knows it’s coming so when he goes there he doesn’t find out as he’s sitting there at the gate. The next item on the agenda is 2009.12.02-that is the Facebook pages reflecting Tradition violations and policy issues, re: CA logo, website address etc. and that was Nicholas and myself as well. I will tell you guys what I have done. I went on Facebook originally, they got the form that if you believe that somebody is coping you’re material or using your copyright material, you fill out the form, you say which webs and which pages it is and blah, blah, blah, why you fell it’s a violation, I did that, submitted it, didn’t hear anything back, no changes were made. About a week later I did it again but this time in part of the information did ask for, there wasn’t a space for it but I included, who we are ,the World Service Chair of Cocaine Anonymous Board of Trustees and this is our stuff and they can’t use it. I kind of laid
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out who and why and still nothing. At this point, I talked a little bit about it with Nicholas; he informed me that he had some knowledge of NA going through somewhat the same thing. They were forced to send a Cease & Desists letter officially from their legal team to the site demanding that it be removed in order to have it taken down. I can certainly try again if you want me to, maybe the third time’s a charm, but at this point we need to ask our legal team to send a letter to Facebook.
Joy: I agree.
Trevor: Is there any other discussion or a motion to do that?
Joy: I make a motion that we have our legal team send a Cease & Desist letter to Facebook to have our logo and trademark removed from their site.
Willie: Second.
Trevor: We have a motion by Joy to send a Cease & Desists letter to Facebook regarding the use of the CA logo and other copyrighted material, and that was seconded by Willie, is there any discussion?
Richard: Let’s speak against that motion. We know how long that it been up and I think that we should try some other avenues because the action of the term Cease & Desist is of legal implication and I don’t know that this Board should be ready to pull the trigger on that without maybe trying prior communications and avoiding the expense also. Maybe the Chair of the office may have the on letterhead, on corporate letterhead may have an effect. It concerns me throwing around legal jargon if we’re not going to follow-thru with it. Do we want to embark in bringing CA into a public controversy with a lawsuit against Facebook? There are other avenues we should check first.
Joy: We’ve sent out, the Board of Trustees maybe not this Board but other Boards of Trustees, have sent out Cease & Desist letters and has nothing to do with filing a lawsuit. A Cease & Desist letter is not filing a lawsuit.
Richard: Absolutely not. It is a threat of legal implication.
Joy: You are absolutely right. The reason we do it is to protect our trademark and our copyright. It has happen to people that have lost it because they didn’t follow -thru. When I was on the Board of Directors at CAWSO we send out a couple of them. The attorney’s have sent out a couple of Cease & Desist letters and that was the only way to get them to stop. Obviously Facebook has ignored our request, the numerous requests that Trevor has sent, and the members that put those site up, I have talked to a couple of them and told them to take them down. I’m getting questions in my Assembly of why are those sites still up. When the Delegates were at the Conference when we told them not to do it and some of those people that were at that
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Conference were the ones that put the sites up. They are going to do it whether we tell them not to and the only way to get them to stop is a threat with legal action. We have to protect our copyright and our trademark. The only way to do it sometimes is to on legal letterhead send a Cease & Desist letter. I’ve seen it work. All the other avenues don’t. I’m totally in favor of this motion.
Kim: I too have to speak on behalf of this. When we apply for a copyright and a trademark, in essences we’re charged with protecting at any lengths that we can, which includes declining our own fellowship from using a double circle in the words Hope, Faith, and Custard. Clearly going to them and trying to educate them about that and that any variation may open the door for potential future misuse of our logo and our copy written literature. If we have exhausted these other avenues, I know that I am currently working with a gentleman from Wisconsin, they’ve removed the CA logo and they have a little group of people that they are continuing to use some other copy written literature and I’m working with them, but in essences if we don’t do it when it is completely utterly misused outside of even this fellowship, we’re potentially putting ourselves at liberty to lose it, so I speak in favor of the motion.
Randy: The trademark violation is, their not using the logo it’s Cocaine Anonymous, Facebook site.
Joy: No they are using the logo.
Trevor: Two sites at least have the logo and one of them also contains the CA.Org website. It’s got our preamble, I believe.
Randy: The Facebook one?
Richard: There’s dozens, so our request is—instead of going to each one of these where there’s anonymous people, it’s going to Facebook the Organization saying our registered trademark is being violated. You need to discontinue publishing these sites, and they can. I don’t dispute the argument, I dispute doing it with that pursuit at this time.
Kim: And don’t misunderstand me, somebody asked me recently why do people do this, and I said they’re grateful. I want to believe that, they’re grateful, they’re passionate, they don’t know the Traditions and the CA business, and so yes we have to continue to educate our fellowship and when they refuse to be open minded to the education then we go down this path. Go to Facebook and submit the request, it’s not being dealt with, so now what do we do?
Randy: There is a part of me that just wants to join everyone and say knock it off and this is why, and I’m not so sure that that’s not the best way to educate the individuals and whether it’s a long lengthy post that truly says that we appreciate and hold dear the same gratitude that you have towards the opportunity to be in recovery and share it with others but there are ways about doing this and ways that can’t. If we had a standard posting and we had folks saying I going to join it,
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I’m going to join your thing long enough to give me the deal with respect to Cocaine Anonymous, please set up your site under a different name or within 30 days we’ll ask Facebook to remove the site completely and that’s not what we want to do. The one that I just pulled up has 1400 members that are possibly going to that site to share experience, strength, and hope with each other. To shut the site off without telling them why or asking them to change it, I know we are going through Facebook, but is there a way to pop on these sites and with a approved paragraph and a half from the World Service Board of Trustees going folks this what you guys are doing here is beautiful but it is being done incorrectly and we need to make these changes.
Nicholas: I thought that’s why we had HFC online. I have spoken personally to two of these people one said F**K you, and the other one said I don’t care about the Traditions, so the people that are trying to say why don’t reason with these people, they don’t want to be reasoned with, they want to do what they want to do. The French, when they find out that someone is coping Gucci or Kenso or something get the steam rollers and kill me and destroy it. If we don’t enforce the trademark they think it’s a joke. We’re not going to the fellowship so we’re going against Facebook. Facebook is an organization that makes money; it has nothing to do with recovery. We are going in against Facebook to protect something that we paid for. We can do both, the lawyers should be instructed and we can also, some of these groups are closed so you have to break the Traditions to get into the group to tell them to stop it. Richard K from the UK says I’m starting a “We don’t care about CAWS 2012 f**k CA group”, would you like to join. Well I can’t join as a Trustee or part of the Board because that would be like joining the enemy to get in. You hear what I’m saying it’s mad. I’m not saying all of these people have never heard of the Traditions, but they don’t mind breaking them with consequences. My experience with people like this is, Jackie asked someone not to go to the World Cup and hold up 200 ft. banner, so they went to the World Cup and held it up anyway. They’re beyond the Traditions, they don’t care. We have tried, and we have asked, and it’s still going on. People are still getting upset. These people are downgrading the message, breaking the Traditions, and doing whatever they want. There’s no point in paying the fee we don’t enforce the logo, otherwise what is the point. You just get to a point that no, no, no, we have done all of that, they are still doing it, keep asking, and they’re still doing it. It’s the threat of legal action; because you do not threat people do what they want. Like Kim was says she’s working, some would say bargaining with. Maybe that group is reasonable, but the people with the two logo’s they are not reasonable and do not wish to be spoken to. I’m not doing anything wrong was the correct term. He said I’m not doing anything wrong. Are you going to start quoting Traditions at me? No we are going to Facebook. You can’t stop Facebook dude. I bet you we can because it is trademarked, so one of the people already knows that we’re probably going to go against Facebook. If Randy’s worried we can send emails to those people. If we know the originator we can say this is what we’re going to do, deal with it. I’ve sent you a link for HFC, do share your experience, strength, and hope here. Its CA approved, there are thousands of members, we would like to hear from you. Otherwise we are just authorizing violation of Traditions and let them walk all over, what’s the point of having a trademark. It may sound a bit draconian, but the way to keep a trademark is to enforce it. I would send a letter.
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Trevor: Hello everyone just wanted to give thanks and repeat a post that I put up. I started a group as an umbrella to anonymous groups so feel free to join. Addict’s like us that want recovery is a place to vent if you are felling preachy, a place to discuss whatever you might need to, right on the Cocaine Anonymous Facebook website.
Joy: What I like, Anonymity and social networks. On this discussion someone puts on hear anonymity and social network Peter S. Los Angeles May 2009, a dictionary reference general social networking websites experience suggestion in keeping with the 11th Tradition not to disclose any AA membership on social networking sites as well as any other website blog, electronic bulletin board etc. it is not comprised solely of AA members, is not password protect or is accessible to the public. So guess what, AA has already dealt with this and their response was we appreciate your concern and your opinions however reviewing the info section on this page you will notice that it’s clearly written that this is not Cocaine Anonymous page, this is a page for fans of Cocaine Anonymous. The problem is the words Cocaine Anonymous are our protected trademark.
Kim: It’s on page 13 of World Service Manual.
Joy: Part of me wants to reply to this and say you’re fricking wrong; Cocaine Anonymous is a protected trademark. You cannot use the word Cocaine or Anonymous. I would love to write that right now and send it, but I’m not going to. She responded to this woman on Wednesday, I assuming it’s a she, it sounds like a woman is writing this.
Trevor: What I have the biggest problem with is the website, WWW.CA.Org. It’s got in the link section; down on the side, it’s got a direct link to some of our literature on our website.
Joy: And the Preamble.
Randy: There are thousands of sites that send links to Cocaine Anonymous’ website and that’s not the issue because they’re not representing themselves as Cocaine Anonymous. Almost all of the sites—not only self help sites, treatment centers site, dah, dah, dah, all carry links to AA, CA, NA, dah, dah, dah, and God bless them. I hope they send as many people our way as possible; it’s their representation as Cocaine Anonymous not that they have a link out there to our stuff. I’m good with going to Facebook. Do we have a motion on the floor?
Trevor: I believe we do. The motion was to get our legal team to send a Cease & Desist letter to Facebook instructing them to remove all our trademark property from their site. That was made by Joy and seconded by Willie, I believe. Is there anymore discussion?
Randy: I have one more thing. Why are we stopping at Facebook? Isn’t the same thing happening on My Space?
Trevor: I’m not on My Space; I can only assume that it is. I have had reports in the past of it.
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Randy: Or do we just deal with one at a time as we go?
Kim: We actually have an article that we wrote in the news gram. It’s probably happening on My Space, Facebook, and Twitter.
Richard: I think I was clear in my first statement; I’m not against vigorously protecting our trademark. I’m against not being prudent at the way that we pursue it. I believe two filling out an electronic forms requesting it and saying forget we’ll go spend three grand on the attorney, is not being prudent.
Randy: How much is it? Is it three grand? Do we know the number?
Richard: Tom said 700 bucks to initiate communications. That’s an email, phone call, response, $700, letter add another.
Joy: It’s not going to be $3000 since they have form letter of Cease & Desist. All they have to do is punch in the name and the address.
Trevor: My belief is that Richard probably brings up a pretty good point. We should at least know what we’re doing before we do it.
Joy: Are we worried about how much it is going to cost us or are we more worried about protecting our copy written and trademark material? What is our role as Trustees?
Trevor: We are the guardians of the Traditions and the principal financial planners. All I’m saying is he brings up a good point and I would think before we’re going to agree to have our legal team do something…
Joy: I already know its $250 an hour for them. That’s their fee.
Trevor: I would still like to say to Tom and or Yvette, this is what we want to do, and can you check and see what’s its going to cost us.
Lawrence: Are we not going to protect our copyright because of the cost? It’s going to cost us more than that if we lose the copyright.
Joy: Good point.
Trevor: That’s a very good point.
Willie: I speak in favor of the motion. What we are doing is actually getting our legal representation into it so we don’t step out there and cause any further controversies by misstating
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or misquoting what it is what we are trying to convey. Our legal team can best do that for us, and I believe that’s why we have them, that’s why we have the protection, that’s why we pay for it, getting them to protect our us.
Kim: I reading this article. Maybe we need to print it every quarter for the next ten years so that this fellowship understands what the potential harm is. It talks specifically here to the Traditions, Tradition Six, Tradition Ten, and Tradition Eleven. Our statement of purpose indicates everything in our manual and if we disregard the protection of our trademark and our copyright—I wish it was all kumbya, this is how it should be done, and this is how we suggest, here’s the manual, look on page 13 and page 30, oh call your regional Trustee if—that was the Denver sign. I wish it was like that but it’s not, and so when we lose our trademark and when we lose our copyright it may not be the nine of us standing at the podium, at the Conference saying we’re really sorry but we just—we didn’t diligently, with passion and purpose—we didn’t forge forward to protect whatever or to address these issues that come before us. I don’t want to put further Boards in that position. It says right here the WSBT has set forth correspondence that will evolve a Cease & Desist letter. We say it in our article, we do have faith with proper understanding of the Traditions and the World Service manual there will be a positive outcome, but when there’s not, when you have communications by means of email, phone calls, and face to face, and there is not resolution and we go through the submission of requesting the entity of Facebook to honor what we are charged to do, and that is to protect our copyright and trademark. I agree with Lawrence. We are going to lose a lot more than $700.
Trevor: Hearing no more debate, at this point in light of the page that I’m looking at which is Facebook or My Space is plastered with CA stuff, our logo, and our PSA.
Joy: I would like to amend my motion to change it from Facebook to all social networking sites.
Trevor: Is there any objections to that?
Randy: I think the dollar value extended overall is a little scary. There could be social networking sites to the tenth degree.
Kim: In our article is says in accordance with the above, which indicates everything that’s copy written and trademarked, it says in accordance with the terms of our manual, our Traditions, the use of the CA logo, and all other protected trademarks on Facebook, My Spare, and other similar sites is not appropriate or acceptable. All similar sites, I think that’s how your motion should be amended.
Joy: Ok. What if I withdraw the first motion and come up with a new one?
Trevor: Is there any object with Joy withdrawing that motion? Hearing no objecting that motion is withdrawn. I have a question from being out of the Country; I’m not sure what your laws are down here, so I’m going to ask. I know that there are things like legal zoo and those self help
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lawyer thing where you can buy it and do your own stuff and it’s perfectly legal, is there some kind of a Cease & Desist form letter that we as a fellowship can send out to people on official letterhead?
Joy: We can pull some of the old Cease & Desist letters that are in the office and put it on CA World Service letterhead, but I don’t know if that would have the same type of bearing as if it came from an actual law firm for some of these places, like Facebook since they’ve ignored your request already.
Richard: How do we know that they did?
Trevor: Because the sites still up and it’s been we…
Joy: There was no response.
Trevor: Oh yes there was. They say they will get back to me within a few days to update me on what’s going on and two responses over the course of about 3 weeks and that was like probably 3 weeks ago that I sent the last one and I’ve got no response for any of them, so that goes back 2 months.
Richard: Understanding technology and the way that company’s look at things if an email address came from someone at CA.Org it may have a better representation as to someone submitting that rather than someone from Yahoo or Hot Mail.
Trevor: I explained that. The first one here’s what’s—it’s in violation of copyright, and the second one I spelled out—I am the Chair of the Board of Trustees for Cocaine Anonymous World Services…
Randy: But they don’t know if you are telling the truth.
Joy: First motion is can we send a CAWSO letterhead Cease & Desist letter to Facebook, My Space, and all other social networking sites that have the copyright and logo infringement? That’s the first motion.
Willie: Second.
Trevor: We have a motion by Joy to send a Cease & Desist letter printed on CAWSO, Inc. letterhead to Facebook, My Space, and all other social networking sites that have copyright and logo infringement, seconded by Willie, is there any discussion? Just for the record could I have Kim read that back.
Kim: Motion that we send on CAWSO, Inc. letterhead a letter of Cease & Desist to Facebook, My Space, and other similar sites to remove our copy written literature and trademarked logo.
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Randy: How do they know what those things are, and is it their job to hunt down all these sites that are in this letter, or do we have to identify those sites for them?
Trevor: On Facebook the way that it works is that you cannot submit the form until you provide the URL of the offending pages.
Randy: You’re talking about the Cease & Desist letter.
Trevor: We would be for us to say. We would have to go in a research the sites and say here’s the URL’s of the offending pages on your site. It would require a little bit more work from us.
Randy: So that letter would require our trademark logos.
Joy: That’s way it’s on CAWSO letterhead.
Randy: We are trying to say we have trademarked the words Cocaine Anonymous.
Joy: We have.
Willie: We have.
Randy: But the people at Facebook, we send them a letter you need to get rid of all of our trademarks. They don’t know what those are.
Trevor: We have to spell it out.
Joy: We have to spell it out in a Cease & Desist letter.
Kim: Doesn’t it say in our policy on page 13 of the World Service manual? It states our name, the black letters, the official CA logo, further variations of the logo, book titles, the motto, the preamble, etc.
Randy: So that would all part of this letter as well?
Joy: Yes.
Randy: Alright. I’m good.
Trevor: The motion was to send a Cease & Desist letter…
Kim: Motion that we send on CAWSO, Inc. letterhead a letter of Cease & Desist to Facebook, My Space, and other similar sites to remove our trademark logo and copy written literature.
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Trevor: Is there anymore discussion on the motion? Hearing none, all in favor? All opposed.
With minor opposition the motion carries with substantial unanimity.
Joy: I make motion that the second step be that if the CAWSO letterhead does not get any response that we have our attorneys send a Cease & Desist letter threatening legal action if within a 60 day period our logo and trademark is not removed from the social networking sites.
Willie: Second it.
Trevor: Could you restate your motion.
Joy: A motion that if within 60 day period our request is not honored by Facebook, My Space, and other similar sites that a letter from our legal team be sent.
Trevor: That was Joy’s motion, Willie seconded it, is there any discussion?
Willie: Would this not be better served as to an action plan like we did with the AA letter, come to it with a plan so one motion takes care of the entire plan or in—I guess that’s what you’re heading with the two motions.
Joy: Yes.
Trevor: There were five separate motions.
Willie: Right, right.
Joy: That’s why I’m doing this. That’s the action plan I’m trying to create. That’s what I was trying to do. Like we did with the five motions we did with the AA permission.
Willie: Ok.
Trevor: Anymore discussion?
Nicholas: Does it say days or does it say months?
Trevor: As far as?
Nicholas: When you said you sent that thing, we’ll get back in you days?
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Trevor: I can’t remember exactly what it said as far as the timeline. I believe it said within a few days, but I can get on there quick enough I think. I think if they’re taking a short pause to investigate that…
Robert: Anonymity against social networking sites is from AA?
Trevor: That’s what I said about that article.
Joy: I already read it. Someone had posted it on the thing.
Robert: The whole thing?
Joy: Yeah, from June 08…
Robert: This is sent from AA?
Joy: Yes, from June 08—AA guideline Internet June 2008.
Trevor: Ok frequently asked question—what happens after I sent the report? We will make every effort to review the report as quickly as we can so as long as everything appears to be in order we will promptly remove or disable access to the content. We will also notify the in user and if requested provide your report to the user. We will terminate repeat infringements when appropriate. That’s what they said.
Randy: So they never said they would get back to you?
Trevor: Part of that is—I’m sure that is says somewhere in here about that they will notify us of anything that goes on with it.
Richard: You used the DMCA form?
Trevor: Yes, notice of copyright infringement. Possibly what I should have done—I filled it our using my home address and probably should have used CAWSO address.
Nicholas: I could I just hear the motion, please?
Kim: That if within a 60 day period our request is not honored by Facebook, My Space, and other similar sites that a letter from our legal team be sent to them.
Nicholas: So that’s to take action or ignore it because lack of action.
Joy: Lack of action in 60 days shut the sites down…
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Nicholas: Can I ask you a question?
Joy: Of course.
Nicholas: How long will it take to get rid of Cocaine Anonymous logo, a millionth of a second?
Joy: Yes.
Richard: For whom to get rid of it, Facebook Organization?
Nicholas: Facebook can get rid of it in seconds, so why are we giving them 60 days? Can I make a friendly amendment to change it to make it a bit shorter?
Joy: Of course.
Nicholas: That’s two months, that’s a sixth of a year. It might seem like we are dragging. We say like in 30 days. I think two months is giving them ages. Identify Cocaine Anonymous logo and get rid of it. We might have to go a little bit further with the phases, but the logo should be gone straight away. I think 60 days is too long, I would like to make a friendly amendment, it should be something like 7 days, if it takes like nothing.
Joy: If that’s what you want, that’s fine.
Nicholas: I would like to make an amendment to say 7 days not 60 days. Let’s do this thing, especially if we are paying money.
Trevor: Ok, we have been offered a friendly amendment to change 60 days to 7 days, is there any objection to that? Hearing none, the motion has been amended to 7 days instead of 60.
Willie: Now are we talking about 7 days from the time they receive the letter or just 7 days from the time we send the letter?
Trevor: If we are doing it on CAWSO letterhead we’re going to send a letter.
Nicholas: It could be registered post. The date and signed. When they sign they accept it.
Willie: I would like to see more time, at least 14 days. It’s time enough for them to get the letter and for them to process it and search the site and then do the removal.
Nicholas: I hear what you’re saying because they are big, ok 14. I just think 60’s too much. Two weeks, 14 days, I think they should be able to do it. They’re not that big and they’re not important.
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Trevor: Before I ask you if there is any objection to that I would just like to remind everybody that an amendment to an amendment can amended, but the third degree amendment is not allowed, so this is the finally amendment allowed to be made as far as the timeline. Is there any objection to 14 days? The new motion is within 14 days and we are going to do what we are going to do. Now can I hear the motion again?
Kim: I think Mr. Chair I believe that at this time the motion is that if within a 14 day period our request is not honored by Facebook, My Space, and other similar sites that a letter from our legal team be sent to them—i.e.: the social networking sites is what I added to that just to clarify in my notes. It’s not really trying to amend it; it’s trying to clarify who we are sending the letter to.
Trevor: The only thing is that I would like to have included in this something about who is going to be the lead on this and who might volunteer to help them in order to—we will have to do research. The Facebook thing, they will not do it unless…
Willie: I will help Richard.
Trevor: So we have Richard on the lead and Willie and Joy.
Kim: Should we not take a vote on this?
Joy: We should probably vote on this before we do that. Also I believe it goes through the Legal committee.
Trevor: Ok is there anymore discussion on the motion? Hearing none, please prepare yourselves to vote, all in favor? All opposed? With some opposition the motion passes with 2/3’s anonymity.
Richard: Fifth concept statement: I will again state I am absolutely in favor of vigorously defending our copy protected logo, trademark and I believe we should do it and my issue is we are not attorneys or legal experts. Even if there was an attorney on the Board at this time I would say we’re not copyright legal attorneys and experts. We are charging others to perform legal tasks without prior investigation and that is not prudent with our fellowship money. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t be doing this. I’m not saying we’re waiting a year to do it, I’m just saying that I believe these actions and these motions without investigation are not being prudent.
Randy: The investigation, that this is not a copyright infringement?
Richard: I don’t know that Trevor properly went through what needed to be done. We didn’t see it.
Randy: The first motion is just a letter saying knock it off.
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Nicholas: We might not get to the second motion.
Richard: Unless you guys are changing you vote and we need more discussion then let’s move on. I just needed to make my statement.
Randy: The Northern New England area that’s not an area?
Robert: It’s not an area yet.
Nicholas: Not officially recognized as an area. They call themselves an area.
Trevor: We are informally discussing things.
Willie: Can we take a bio?
Trevor: Yeah, we’re officially done that item of business, unless anybody has any motions relating to it. Seeing none, yeah we can take a 10 minute bio.
Trevor: After a short bio break we are back on the record at 8:20 p.m. At this point I would like to ask for a motion regarding who’s going to be working on that.
Joy: I make a motion that Richard writes all the letters in relation to Cease & Desist letters to Facebook, My Space, and other similar sites to remove our trademark logo and copy written literature, including the statement of policy.
Willie: Second.
Kim: To be within 14 days?
Joy: Yes.
Trevor: Can we have a motion that Joy stated?
Kim: Motion that Richard writes all letters regarding this issue.
Trevor: The only part that I’m concerned that is missing is doesn’t layout who’s going to be researching said violations. We can write all the letters that we want but if we don’t know who we are sending it to but not what whose authority.
Richard: Do you want to revise that to state review?
Joy: Do you have a friendly amendment Richard?
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Richard: No. Per the Chairs recommendation a friendly amendment to review and document the offending sites to be contacted. Does that fulfill your…
Trevor: Yes, I just want to know who’s going to be responsible. You can always ask for help. There are others members including myself that would gladly do that. Is there anyone objecting to that friendly amendment? The motion is so amended. I will as our secretary to read that back.
Kim: Motion that Richard writes all letters regarding this issue in addition review and document the offending sites to be contacted. Would that be correct?
Joy: Yes.
Trevor: Is there any discussion on this motion? Just for clarification you’re willing to…
Richard: Yes.
Trevor: I just like to ask the person…
Richard: Vigorously and diligently.
Trevor: Hearing no discussion, all in favor? All opposed? Motion carries unanimously. I guess everybody voted very vigorously this quarter. We know that Richard is writing the letters and reviewing all the sites to find all the offensives possible on the Internet world wide, anywhere.
Richard: Could you put Twitter in parenthesis so that I can make sure I cover that. I was looking at it and thinking about when we were making a motion and it wasn’t included. I just want to make sure it’s covered.
Trevor: Moving along to business item 2010.01.01-the sales of HFC II outside of U.S. Is there anything else we want to talk about with that?
Nicholas: The UK got their orders filled. I noticed that five of the books equates to about 140 copies. A dollar each is costing us $1.88 as opposed to .88 cents which is double the price as the States. There was there some debate about printing and getting rid of old literature. I hope that there will be a middle ground, that they will accept more stickered, that we’ll move into the position, it will take time. Mumbles… We will eventually get permission to print out our own literature.
Kim: So would this be removed from our agenda or should we move it on as an update?
Trevor: It’s left on as an updated item so we know kind of the progress that they’re making. For the record Richard looks deep in thought.
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Richard: I would like to make a motion that Nicholas and Willie put together a quote using three vendors from the UK for the sale—I want an action to be started for you guys to work on the HFC II being done in the UK. A business plan to get that started.
Trevor: Richard motions to have Nicholas and Willie take the lead in devising a business plan for the printing and sales of CA literature overseas.
Kim: I’m sorry Mr. Chair could you please restate that.
Trevor: Richard motions to instruct Nicholas and Willie to take the lead in devising a business plan for the future printing of CA literature overseas.
Joy: Second.
Richard: I just wanted an action and not for this to stay on the agenda until the next quarter.
Trevor: We have a motion of whatever Richard said and Joy seconded it, is there any discussion?
Are you both willing to work together with that?
Nicholas: Were good.
Trevor: Seeing no discussion, all in favor? All opposed? That motion carries unanimously. The next item of business 2010.01.02-license printing of literature, we’re going to group that together if there’s no objection because it’s the same thing. That will be combined and or removed as our secretary desires.
Kim: So we’re combining 01 and 02?
Trevor: Yes. Sales and license printing of literature overseas or however you want to word it.
Nicholas: Do I follow-up on what we…
Trevor: Actually sent them an email to our friend Jarrod Collard and …
Nicholas: Do you want me to take that over or do you want to do it?
Trevor: There was a guy he said that was around back then but I can’t remember. I’ve got it written down at home somewhere but you might—there are defiantly people around there that were still around when that happened. You might want to contact…
Nicholas: You want me to proceed then?
Trevor: Yeah.
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Nicholas: Ok I will proceed.
Trevor: I don’t know what their royalty agreement is.
Nicholas: Ok.
Willie: When the office unpacks and get fully operational I can research it there.
Nicholas: We can get it from both ends.
Trevor: Next item of business is 2010.01.03-WSOT Ratification term of service. This was an update item from this Quarterly, Willie do you have anything to talk about on that?
Willie: Once again the Ratification, let’s say that the WSOB and the Ratification process does not ratify the WSOT, how does that process work out and is it the same as the other process with all the other Trustees?
Richard: What do you mean by is the same as the other process?
Willie: None of the other Trustees is ratified by their regions yearly.
Richard: Correct.
Willie: But the WSOT is ratified by the WSOB and is that the same for other Trustees?
Nicholas: The WSOT in a unique position then? Where does World Service Office Trustees come from?
Richard: The region.
Joy: No.
Trevor: It comes from the Office Board.
Nicholas: So it’s unique, so maybe the ratification is unique because the person electing is unique because it’s a unique fishbowl. You’re saying he’s in the same—no he can’t be the same. It is not regional, no offense Willie, it can’t be the same. If it only comes from here and they work with that person for a year that’s just—sort of version of what we do as a Board here to make sure that we’re all working. Each year we ratify each other but because the WSOB brought it forward they are doing that process also?
Trevor: We both ratify.
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Nicholas: We both do it. Why do they have to be ratified twice? Would that be the thing?
Willie: Pretty much because Regional Trustees are brought forward by the areas and their Assemblies, but they don’t go through a ratification process on a yearly basis. The office is a WSOT’s area that bringing them forward but the WSOT is the only trustee subject to ratification by that region that brought them forward.
Nicholas: By the people that vote for it.
Willie: Right.
Nicholas: So what would like to see? Would you like to see that go?
Willie: Yes. I would like to see that ratification process looked at for the WSOT. Make a referral to have it stricken.
Nicholas: I hear what you are saying but I still think it’s unique. We can vouch for what the WSOT does here in our experience, they can vouch for what they see the WSOT is doing from their experience, again that’s unique because I don’t go to WSOB, I go there as a guest like I did in October. I’m not saying that is good, I’m just saying that maybe why that’s was an issue put in place, because the WSOB has a unique working experience of the WSOT on a yearly basis, because they see me every two weeks. We see you and you do your job and I will ratify you or not, probably the former, in September. Because you act as liaison maybe they might be able to see something that I don’t, which may or may not exists, I don’t know. I’m trying work out the logic of why they put you in place, because I hear your question. I’m trying to double think it. Do you find that offensive? Not a level playing field?
Willie: actually before I even brought it tried to find the logic in it, ok. Try to find the logic in the term of office, because the WST is a four year term. They are brought forth by the region and they sit on the Office Board twice a month as well, but their term is four and the WSOT is two. I’m just trying to find out what was the logic. In conversation to previous WSOT’s. That’s the way it’s been.
Randy: Is the WST ratified every year?
Willie: No. The manual says at one time a Pacific South Region was there, the Trustee, the WST, the WSOB Chair, and the Paid Director are not ratified, but the WSOT is ratified.
Richard: I’m happy to discuss the issue and the topic but in rethinking what we are talking about this is a topic and issue for the WSOB. Regardless we are going to be re-ratifying here once a year and that’s not going to change for all of us, but this is a topic and issue for the WSOB.
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Joy: Per the manual it say’s the WSOB Trustee is an active volunteer Director that is not already a Trustee on the WSO Board of Directors and the World Service Trustee has to live within a certain radius of the office. It’s says 125 miles of the World Service Office in California. All Directors other than the Paid Director or Trustee Directors, which is what the World Service Office Trustee is—considered a Trustee Director. The Trustee Directors will be elected in accordance to the Trustee election procedures containing elsewhere in the manual and become a Director of CAWSO immediately upon the beginning of their term of office. So besides being a Trustee you are also being a Director of CAWSO., and because you are considered a Director of the Office, CAWSO, it tells you since all of the CAWSO Board members serve only two years and be ratified no less than once per year at a meeting by each of the CAWSO Boards and the WSBT such ratification votes or votes can be called by a 2/3’s majority, but it also says that all WSO Directors serve on the WSO Spending committee, you get that but only candidates can come from the World Service Office Board Directors.
Kim: I’m quite sure that the procedure and process to ratify the WSOB probably came through a referral from the WSOB and I have to concur with Richard that this is not—you’re ratified here, your objection to being ratified also by the WSOB should probably be taken up with them and potentially a referral written. I think World Service Office Trustee—I know Joy and I went through a lot of this stuff in developing these additional questions for the position. We read some of this stuff and was saying to Joy that this on our agenda from the Conference call. I think that that special relationship that the person has a WSOT to both Boards precludes that you be ratified by both Boards but again I think that this is not for us to make a decision on. You might want to take this to the other Board and have them clarify.
Randy: What Joy just read, I hear that all the World Service Office Board Directors are ratified every year? So first and foremost you’re a Director of the World Service Office Board that has been, whether that Director is assigned to finance or whether that one is assigned as the Treasurer or that one is elected—you know what I mean? It’s like, if the World Service Office Director position first assigned, elected, appointed, I’m not sure what the right word is, as the World Service Office Trustee but as a group of Directors of the World Service Office Board there’s an annual ratification for every one of those people. That kind of ratification doesn’t exist in regional positions and that’s why our regions not asked to ratify the Trustee on an annual basis, but the WSOB does have ratification on an annual basis for all of their Directors of which the WSOT is one.
Willie: So be it. The WST is a Director, a Paid Director, also a Director at Board, and the WSOB Chair person? Yes it states the Trustee Directors but the WST when their elected the WST becomes a Director of the same Board?
Randy: But they are Trustee first sitting on the Board vs. Board first sitting as a Trustee. I guess that’s the only thing I can see different.
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Willie: But again, I wasn’t bringing it to this Board for a decision, I was just going over what would be your thoughts. What are your thoughts, whether it becomes a referral from the WSOB, supported by the WSBT, I believe it all should be in unison when it actually goes into the Conference. That’s what I’m doing, just bringing it for thoughts.
Joy: Here is a little contradiction in our manual—Conference approved slates, various Trustee slates should be submitted to the Conference for ratification as one of the first substantive order of business. Each regional slate, non addict Trustee slate, and the World Service Trustee slate shall be presented for approval by a single vote of the Conference. The ratification of the regional slate also constitutes the ratification of the Trustee @ Large designees and the World Service Trustee from the Pacific South Region, there is no objections to the slate. Then it goes on to all Trustees except the World Service Office Trustee shall be selected from the Conference approved slate pursuant to the procedures outlined in this manual. The World Service Office Trustee shall be selected from the candidates selected by the World Service Office Board not already a Trustee. In order to be elected a Trustee a candidate must receive a vote of 2/3’s from the Trustee election committee.
Trevor: The other thing that I found too is that the Office Board members are ratified by the Office Board as well as the WSBT once per year, so because you sit on both Boards, you get ratified by both Boards as well.
Richard: That was my train of thought. Is it because the WST isn’t ratified on both Boards that this stuck out in your head?
Willie: No. The WST solely was not the determinate factor, I was just looking at the end to end. I started thinking about this prior to me even becoming a Trustee. So, why is this position only two years and all the other Trustees is four years? I think I asked the former WST a couple of times and he said I don’t know. I’m actually done, I’ve got enough information.
Trevor: The next item of business is…
Kim: So are we removing that from the agenda?
Trevor: If Willie is satisfied with where it’s at. He can move it back to the Office Board or he can send a submission for a referral to S&B. The next item of business is 2010.01.05-CAWS 2011 fundraising.
Randy: I believe that any of the original miscommunications and actions upon that committee have been ironed out and they are absolutely on board with the process to get things approved both events and items.
Trevor: Does anybody have any thoughts or concerns? Tom, good job and I love the Worldly Indeed shirt. Next item of business is the In Conference referrals to be addressed and we’re
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going to group that with the Post Conference referrals to be actions on one to be addressed. I have not seen anything come across through email that’s there’s been any real work on this.
Lawrence: I think we’re done with 6303
Trevor: So 6303 has been dealt with, has anybody done anything with any of the other ones?
Richard: Mine’s just big.
Joy: The manual? We’re working on that.
Richard: 6140 is what we are discussing and that was from Nick A. of Northern Nevada, current Chair of S&B. He was like why isn’t there a manual of what the Trustees do. I talked to him. It was just take our—it was great information was—take our orientation that came from Nicholas. So I did. I took our orientation manual and that was the start and that was the basis, so you all know of this Trustee manual. It was a great idea. I’m starting to put in the things of obligations of Trustee @ Large and what’s some of those tasks are during the period, things like that. It’s a large task. It will be done when it’s due, which is by the mailing for Conference.
Joy: Hopefully.
Richard: A draft will be done.
Joy: Right. We can always go in there working on…
Richard: I think a draft is reasonable to have finished by then. It really is on what you guys agree with on my detail, you and Nicholas. I will commit by end of March for you guys to have a second draft.
Joy: 6021 is actually more of a response than it is anything else.
Trevor: They are all just response things that we have to make work. What my goals is, what I would like to see in order to assist both us and our secretary especially, is that by the May Quarterly we have these all prepped ready to go so that gives Kim three months to start doing whatever she wants to do with prepping for the opening report at the Conference.
Kim: We didn’t vote on your response, did we?
Everyone: Yes, we did.
Kim: I have the response, but did we vote on it?
Everyone: Online.
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Kim: Ok.
Robert: On referral 6005 is the Subcommittee is done with it, I just got to do some editing and it will be submitted online by the end of the week.
Randy: With removing referral 6303 I make a motion that all In Conference referrals and Post Conference referrals remain online.
Joy: Second.
Kim: Excuse me, point of order. This has already been moved to online.
Trevor: We don’t really need a motion to leave them there.
Kim: Get your butts in gear and get them done.
Joy: Referral 6315, Trevor is actually the lead on this. He keeps telling me he is going to write the response.
Trevor: I fully intend to.
Joy: So can we put Trevor as lead and not me, please, even though it’s coming out of my region.
Richard and Joy are his Subcommittee.
Kim: Got it, made the changes.
Joy: And responses to correspondences we received from fellowship, I sent to subcommittee…
Trevor & Kim: We are not there yet.
Trevor: Next item on the agenda is response correspondence received from the fellowship.
The first one is number 4—correspondence from Quin.
Kim: What would it be? I’m sorry, where are we?
Trevor: Responses to correspondence received from the fellowship.
Joy: It’s not finished.
Trevor: We are still working on it.
Joy: If you look at it there are actually two spots that need help with this one. I came up with some really good responses to some of them, but the ones I couldn’t come up with anything I
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said need help. I’m waiting for my Subcommittee to give me help with this response. It will be updated online.
Trevor: Like I’ve said I have lots of time this coming week.
Richard: Is that something you sent out right before I left town?
Joy: Yes.
Richard: I recall it, but I was just leaving town.
Joy: The only one that has responded to me at all, well Trevor said he would look at it when he got home, but Willie actually sent me an email and then he called me. I think some of my responses to some of these questions are really good. I took them right out of the Convention guidelines.
Trevor: So we know what we are doing with that. It’s going to be put online very, very soon once the Subcommittee signs off on it in the next few days. This is an item that I’m going to bring up in new business and I’m going to move it around slightly just because I want to make sure that it gets done tonight in case anybody needs to get out of here in the morning before we get to it. I know at least one person has an early flight. I want to talk about business item
2010.02.04-World Convention prep. Because I put that on there, I’m going to tell you what I mean by that. A lot of things to consider at the World Convention is, our biggest fundraiser, our biggest face time with the fellowship at large and as a Board and as a World Organization, therefore to me it is very important that we are as visible as much as it is humanly possible. Not to say that 24/7 we’ve got to be there smiling because we’re human and we’re not machines but especially this year with what we’ve got going on, we know that we have had some conflict with members of this Board and the committee and we need to be there to support each other in making it through that. We have a brand new, never done it before Director of Operations who is going to need as much of our support proactively as we can possibly provide. I know that that’s her job and what she is paid for but I also remember this Board saying we will step up and help and provide assistance where and when we can and this is one of those times. When the agenda comes out we will look at it and figure out where we need to be and when. One of the things that I noticed from last year was that for the, I believe it was the World Service forum it was the Chair of the Office Board and the Chair of our Board and the Conference Chair were having their meet the fellowship and getting asked questions, there was very few members of this Board present. It would have been better had we all been there, at least a large majority of us. It would have looked better and it would have been better for Hayward in support.
Joy: Which?
Trevor: It was the World Service Forum, where the Chair of the Trustees, the Chair of the Office Board, and the Conference Chair when they sit and have the meeting with—and people can ask some questions. It was very few; it wasn’t a large number of Trustees there. They was a large
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number of former Trustees there asking questions, but there wasn’t a large number of Trustees at that meeting.
Nicholas: I don’t remember that meeting.
Trevor: I do because…I’m not saying that nobody was there, there was not a majority of us there
Kim: That’s to meet the Trustees. The World Service Forum is to be the Chairs of the three branches.
Trevor: Yes.
Kim: And so—but we’re combining all of that into one hour and a half meeting this year.
Trevor: Ok, so we are all going to be there and it’s not an issue. I guess the whole reason that I’m bringing it up is because like I said earlier is that I felt like this last year was not as unified as I thought it could been with us as a Board at the Convention in Denver, not to say that we did a bad job because we didn’t. This is what I am basing it on is that in years past—I remember in Kansas City where every single member of the Board before the banquet, half the people were getting ready, half were downstairs at the doors selling raffle ticket, greeting people, and the half that was getting ready came down everybody else come up and got ready, we did stuff like that and last year in Denver that didn’t happen.
Joy: Kim and I were at the door shaking hands with everyone as they walked in.
Trevor: I’m not saying…
Kim: I think all of us were at the door.
Trevor: I’m not saying it didn’t happen at all.
Joy: You just said it didn’t happen.
Trevor: Ok, I would like to correct my statement, not that it didn’t happen, I felt that it didn’t happen enough. That’s my opinion and I’m entitled to it. I think that as a Board we could be more proactive in face time with the fellowship at the Convention. If you guys don’t agree then we won’t do it. It’s up to you. I’m just giving my opinion.
Kim: Are we talking about a big white elephant in the room or…
Trevor: I’m not pointing fingers at anybody at all. I’m just saying that I felt…
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Kim: Ok.
Trevor: I can only tell you guys exactly how I feel. What I felt in Denver was I felt like a “me” rather than an “us”, for not a large majority of the time but a somewhat significant amount of time and I don’t like it. That’s how I felt.
Richard: Could you give a different example rather than just the…
Trevor: For the banquet we were all together and that was great. There were the two tables which is fun. It was just I didn’t feel like it was an enough. That’s how I felt, I can’t give you a specific example, I just felt like there was—I didn’t feel like together collectively people could walk around and say there’s the Trustees, because we weren’t all standing there greeting people, talking, doing World Service donation program forms, or raffle tickets, or anything like that. I didn’t see it, I missed it. I think that that’s part of the thing that I’ve always felt that has brought this Board together in the past for me and I think that the fellowship when they see that kind of stuff—I’m not saying there were fights or we didn’t get along or nothing happened, I’m just saying that’s the kind of thing that I missed. I know for me in the past when I saw the Board together that to me was that’s the Trustees and they are doing what they should be doing because they’re together doing—shaking hands and kissing babies like Carl always said. I missed it this last year.
Joy: You should have hung out with me in the hospitality suite; I got a lot of people to sign up for the World Contribution program. I was doing everything that you felt like we weren’t doing. I understand that your feelings are valid. My feeling is that I was doing all of that and there were other Trustees around me that were doing it with me and I literally was out there pushing the contribution program and handing out the flyers and getting people that really couldn’t afford to do it, to do it anyway even if it was a dollar a month or two dollars a month, I literally got them to sign up. You’re right I didn’t anyone else doing it except I think Kim helped me. Your right, I felt like I was the only one pushing it.
Randy: I was late to the meet the Trustee meeting because I was working the little booth thing signing people up to the contribution program and realized that the meeting had started and I did show up late. I think the issue—and I guess it’s on an item of new business though, I can’t see a motion on any kind or any real business being presented except feelings, but because if that’s the direction that we want to take the discussion mine are from the day that I walked into the room here as the Trustees I’ve heard the “us” and “them”. It’s an “us” and “them” from time to time. I want to see the Board truly go forward as a unified Board of Trustees but be very conscious of fostering what we consider to be the negative attitude that perceived and put towards us from time to time in the “us” and “them”. I think that some of the decisions they we make, where we sit during the Conference, I think there are times and places and I want to know that my region’s Trustee is my region’s Trustee and that when my region put that Trustee in place they didn’t hop over the fence. We can do that by sitting together at a banquet, we can do that by attending those functions where we are suppose to be as a group and unified as a group, the meets and the greets,
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and the babies, I saw a lot of people shaking hands and socially active. That’s doesn’t have to be done in a collective group, it needs to be done as the individual that’s wearing the badge that says Trustee. I think from time to time we do make decisions that foster an attitude of “us” and “them” because we want to seem unified. We can be unified and still represent our groups and hold positions in our fellowship as a member of the fellowship at a Convention as well. I don’t think that I always carry that—I always carry the responsibility of being a Trustee everywhere I go, but I’m a member of Cocaine Anonymous and at times can go to the dance or go to a function and be with the other members of the fellowship that might not be the Trustees at the table. I think that is crucial to stay connected. I’m kind of rambling on again but I just—if it’s feelings, I didn’t feel that we didn’t represent ourselves as unified and I do believe we have to be careful going forward in some of the decisions that we make if we want break down some of these barriers that from time to time that I’ve heard we believe exist.
Kim: I appreciate this discussion, with no disrespect to the five kids on the bus, that some of this discussion is coming from I’m sure previous years for the three and addition my first year as a Trustee. I think that the sense of camaraderie amongst the Board, for me it was so important my first year, of course I was the new kid and I was the only new kid. It was very supportive to have the rest of them circle up around me. I never felt like “us” but there was a sense of camaraderie that I think my recollection and in discussing it with you last year, because I remember that you and I discussed it, it wasn’t the same as my first year. With that being said I think it’s the sense of camaraderie about this Board being together and yes I understand. My first year as a Trustee I sat with my area and I’m pretty sure it bothered the rest of the Trustees that I didn’t sit with them, so there’s that too, so last year I sat with the Trustees. There’s always going to be someone that’s going to say well you should sit with your region, and there’s going to be someone that’s going to say oh, look at all the Trustees sitting together. We are not going to make everybody happy all the time but I can tell you a couple of things, we all need to be at long term planning, whenever it is on the agenda for the schedule, you need to be at the meeting that consists of Conference Officers, the Conference Committee Chairs, and the WSOB and the WSBT, that will be combined into one meeting for two hours, you need to be at your Regional Caucus, and you need to be at your World Service Committee meeting that you are Trustees to. There’s also the CAWS Convention exchange meeting and so it’s imperative that those Trustees to further CAWS Conventions be at that. Now with that it’s nice to have the support, experience, and knowledge of all of us being at any of this that we can be at. It was important to me to be at your workshop last year, Nicholas, regarding International—and we went. I understand too that this is our Convention too, our World Service Convention and I understand that people are going to have significant others there or family members there, but we have a job to do. I would be happy to send this email out to everybody again regarding the meetings that we really do need to be—I think that one of the things that Trevor is saying is that some of the stuff people weren’t at and we are charged with being at—we really need to be at these meetings and support each other. It’s been a difficult year; last year was difficult, so I think that it wasn’t a lack of us doing what we thought we needed to do but there were five new people on the Board who aren’t familiar with what the three of you are familiar with or what I was familiar with from the first year. We were like this little cluster my first year. We were in TEC or we were at one of these meetings and we
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moved like a herd of cows and it was comforting to some extent. I can’t speak for your experience for your first two years but I’m sure it was something similar. I appreciate what’s being discussed, I think we can all be mindful of it, and supportive of each other throughout this stuff and plan our activities around when that schedule comes out, which God willing there will forward it to me so I can forward to you guys. Let’s face it, Lawrence had a problem at some area or regional because you did something outside of what they expected of you, so we’re damn if we do and we’re damned if we don’t, let’s be mindful of that and how it’s perceived, because other people’s perception there reality of us. Thank you, Trevor.
Richard: I like the discussion, us being open about our opinions and feelings, about our group. There were overlapping activities and I think that this Board covered participating in everything well. I am not a fan of the Board getting a special table at the banquet, I’m just not. I know you have an opinion, it’s your time and you want to sit and choke down rubber chicken with who you what to choke down rubber chicken with. You know my view, there’s not a better time to sit down and break bread and enjoy talking someone else. I sat with some great people from New Mexico that I’ve been to their Convention and stuff and never met them. I see both sides of the experience, honestly and truly I do. My preference is the latter. Since it was brought up, my obvious preference at the Conference is to sit where I sat for four years. I’m WST, I wouldn’t sit up front on the left with the Office, and I’ll still sit where I sat for four years, with the people of my region that put me forth. It’s not a snub at anybody, it’s me doing my work and I’m a lot less likely to be distracted or IMing with anybody. I think that view of sitting off is us saying this is us, you are you, and you’re the rest of the Conference. That’s my perception. I’ve been wrong twice tonight, this could be a third. If this Board comes to me and says Richard Groen we think that we should all sit together, I’ll support it. I’ll do that. Number one because you all let me express how I feel in my opinion and I’m ok doing what we collectively as a group think is best.
Willie: Going to quite a few of the World Service Conventions is being there, once by my area and another times on my own, I always seen the Board of Trustees together, meet and greet at the banquet being there, I’ve seen the camaraderie, but this year is one of the first years that I seen four or five of the Board of Trustees with significant others there and kids there. That could have kind of made it—because when I came into the banquet room there were no seats for me to sit, so I had to search around and find another table that was away from the Board. So the significant others sitting down at the seats kind of did not have the room for a lot of us at the banquet. I’m specifically saying the banquet but I believe I was at most, I can’t say that I was at all. May is kind of foggy. I believe that I was where I was supposed to be and there were times when my significant other said why are you working at 12 o’clock at night signing contracts and signing checks for different people? At some of the events I was at I got called out to sign checks. I just believe that seeing the past and seeing this year, there were some differences, but I don’t believe it was a lack of unity of the Board, I just believe that circumstances kind of had us divided, but I believe we all did the job that we came there to do.
Nicholas: The book talks about selfishness and self-centeredness; it’s the root of all our problems. I sit on the Board at the Conference, so everyone knows where I sit and they can come
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and get me if they need to talk to me. That’s where I am. I am very aware that the UK and the Swedish, I know really well, but they know where I am. That’s why I do that and I like the stuff. I have to agree with Joy, I was at the unity giving out strawberries or something and I think your perception is right, we were doing it but we just weren’t all together. There were groups of us doing stuff. If you think it would be nicer—especially at this time you know, there’s HFC stuff going on, the “How it Works” going on, there’s a lack of this, the Boards not talking to each other, it would be really advantaigist at this time to show people to keep confidence, that with the whole fellowship, with the Board still trying to work together. There are certain events, unless you’re dead, you’re there. We have to be at certain things. Kim has a point, we need to be at certain places, and we need to be seen to be there. It’s not like I can’t do LTP, it’s a bit stressful, and that’s what we get paid the bucks for, to be stressed by it. That’s the one place they get us in a corner and ask us questions. I don’t feel bad if they want to talk. We all need to be all sitting there, so I’m with Kim at least that needs to get out as soon as possible.
Kim: Just to clarify, we don’t get paid for anything. Be sure to read these minutes to clarify yourself in them, Mr. Nicholas. I think there’s a sense of ethics, morals, and principals based on the fact that we are reimbursed as the Board of Trustees to be at these events, that we have a certain sense of responsibility to show up.
Richard: We have responsibility, not in a certain sense, the committees we were on, the things we are doing for service, and we are responsible.
Kim: And you know what, two years in a row I’ve worked in memorabilia, I’ve been in the hospitality suite, and we sat and took tickets at one of the events.
Joy: And stamped hands.
Kim: I went to one of the events with Joy.
Joy: To fill out the surveys.
Kim: That’s right, we filled out surveys.
Nicholas: I’m not denying anything; I’m just saying that’s all fantastic.
Kim: Like I said, I understand where Trevor’s coming from and I like to be part of. I like camaraderie; I want you all to be around me.
Nicholas: You should back Trevor’s thoughts and wishes. We ask Trevor to be the Chair. He is asking us to support him in what he thinks of this event. I’m just want to say I’m 100% with you, I think it is really important, but there will be times when they will be discretion. If Debra was on the phone, you’re going to speak to Debra. Normally we’re going to be there. It can be perceived, we are all sitting around the table talking to each other, but the other perception is
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great the Boards are talking to each other and there all sitting there, because that’s what they are not doing during a Conference. We especially need to be out there in Wisconsin going we’re working on that. So the Office Board and the Trustees need to mix a bit more and be overtly together because some people went back from last Conference with lies and misconceptions on what they think may or may not happened in a closed room with Miss Patty F. and others stuff. Some people are still carrying that. Sometimes we have to be overt and if we have to do a peacock show and say we’re doing this, we’ll have to pretend to do that. Whatever we do let’s do what they have ask us to, which is come back and be a bit more solid, that’s not a big thing. We just ask you to be at the dinner and be at a few places for the fellowship and for the new Trustees that are coming along and not be selfish. Each Board always needs to be seen together or Conference will be done with us and get rid of us. As a Concept, if they’re not doing shit for us then let’s get rid of them. I think to honor the people that have been here before and the people who are coming along, solidarity is really important.
Trevor: I again want to clarify so there’s no misunderstanding that I was not, am not, saying that stuff wasn’t getting done, didn’t get done, I’m saying I didn’t feel like it was “us” enough. Kim hit it right on the head. She said my first two years I felt a special camaraderie with that Board and I want that feeling with you and for you guys to have with each other, because I know what it’s meant to me. I’m not saying this is a bad Board and that were not unified and don’t work well together because I know that we do. I’ve sat in this room with you guys now for long enough and there’s nobody here that is new. I’ve sat here for at least a year and a half with all of you, so I know we all work well together, we get along, we can have disagreements and disputes, and sometimes fight and go to war with each other, and then come up smiling and hugging on the other side. I didn’t ever mention anything about the Conference or any of that. I can see both sides of whether we sit in the front or sit with my region. I go with what was explained to me by my buddy Carl. When I came on board we sit at the front just like Nicholas said, so if anybody what’s to find you, they don’t have to dig around, they know exactly where you are at all times. They know that Trustees are right there if I need to ask one of them a question, that’s where I go. As far as the banquet, I do it for a number of reasons, I like to sit with my friends, and I consider you all as my friends. I like to sit with people that I can laugh and joke with and get along with, and if I say something a little bit off color, which sometimes I tend to do because I’m just me, I know that you guys might get a little offended but you’re going to forgive me for it. I usually don’t mean anything by it. Sometimes I’m not the most eloquent person in the world and I screw up and make mistakes. The number one reason that I put this on is just a reminder to us that yes we do have commitments and a big responsibility to this fellowship because this is the World Convention and we are the World Service Board of Trustees. It is of vital importance for us to be visible and accessible to the fellowship, I’m just saying I would like to see it a little more than it happened last year. I think especially with what Nicholas brought up in light of all the stuff that’s going on as well as the new Director of Operations, who has no experience, a bunch of new stuff. I think we owe it to the fellowship and I believe we owe it to each other and ourselves to be a little bit more than we were. Once again I’m not saying anybody did a bad job, I’m saying that we maybe did a little, stuff got covered. I would like to see us be a little bit more as the World Service Board of Trustees out there. People see us all together, they see us laughing and joking
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and having a good time and meeting people and saying Hi, doing all this stuff that we do because that’s who we are. I’d like them to be able to see that a little bit more.
Joy: This is what I did with my spouse. Thank God she loves to read books and can give a shit about the meetings. I gave her a schedule of where I had to be and what time I had to be there. Then I worked a schedule of when I would be with her and when we would have dinner. She’s literally driving from Chicago to Milwaukee on that Thursday the Convention starts. I will tell you right now, I will be worried until she gets there due to the fact that she never drives and we don’t let her drive. I literally make a schedule of where I have to be, where the room is, and what time I have to be there and I carry that schedule in my back pocket throughout the whole entire Convention. I will be wherever you want me to be. I will be of ultimate service to the Convention. I will sit near the Convention committee, away from the Trustees, if that’s what everyone wants. I did it in 99. I didn’t sit with the Office Board, I sat at a table in the back because when 7th Tradition goes around you have to get up to collect the 7th Tradition and you got to go count it. If I have to miss speakers are meetings because someone needs me to do ultimate service, I’m more than willing to do that. I would like at least one meeting, just one meeting that I can go to as part of my region, and that’s the online meeting. They have it at 2 o’clock in the morning; no it’s 10 o’clock at night. That’s the only meeting I want to go to on Friday.
Lawrence: Thanks for your feelings, Chair. I’m willing to be where I’m supposed to be, do what I’m supposed to do and be out there among the fellowship. I can understand you. I remember the first couple of years and the camaraderie that was there. I see us coming together too. I know we’re going to get in there and do what we are here to do.
Trevor: Ok, anybody else?
Robert: What is the CAWS Convention Exchange?
Trevor: That is where the present committee and any past committee that feels like it, gets together with all the upcoming committees that are present and talks about their experience and gives good ideas of about what does work and maybe some warnings about what may not work so well for them. It’s just basically just a bunch of people sitting around gabbing about who is doing what, who else did it, and how can you help me.
Richard: World Service Convention Exchange.
Robert: The whole thing is, and this is my whole pick on this whole situation, everything I did I asked people. I’m willing to do anything but I don’t know everything. People have expectations of what I should be doing and not doing, if they don’t tell me, I don’t know. I’m not a mind reader. I’m not the only one supposed to be doing it, it’s seen as a whole. Your expectations of feelings of what I should be or not be doing, I’m not taking this personally. If don’t know, I don’t know. I only know what I know.
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Trevor: That is exactly why nobody in this room has any doubt as to how I feel.
Robert: You’ve been carrying this resentment.
Trevor: It’s not resentment; it’s not at all a resentment, I wouldn’t even say it’s a regret, it’s just what I saw and what I felt. For a lack of a better way to put it, as the Chair last year, that was Hayward’s deal and I love Hayward and respect Hayward and I miss him on this Board to pieces, not to diminish anybody else, but out of respect for every Chair my job as not the Chair is to support and I think Hayward did a great job. Now, like Nicholas was saying, you guys picked me. I’m not mandating anything, I’m just telling you guys—you guys ask me to lead this Board and I’m trying to lead this Board based on this in here and what I feel is that I love you guys and what to see us more like this at the Convention. I don’t know how else to put it. I guess bottom line, Kim said it we’ve got obligations, places to be, things to do, babies to shake, and hands to kiss. There is expectation on us from the fellowship and I know that we can meet and exceed them with flying colors, but we have to be there to support each other. We are moving much quicker than I thought we might through this.
Kim: Before we break can I ask a couple of questions.
Trevor: Sure.
Randy: Can 03 and 04 disappear?
Kim: Just to clarify, you have, Randy, you’ve talk to Drew regarding the T-shirt and the CA logo situation?
Randy: Yes.
Kim: So I can move that to my done file?
Randy: Yes.
Kim: Mr. Nicholas, you’re going to handle the young lady that’s claimed two months and needs to go to a clinic.
Nicholas: I’ll speak to her.
Kim: Thank you.
Trevor: The lady that solved her own problem two hours later, before I could even contact her?
Kim: Yes. Regarding the web site?
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Trevor: Oh the Co-anon thing?
Kim: Yes.
Trevor: That I will work on.
Kim: Should that be on our agenda or…
Trevor: That’s up to you guys. It’s basically she wants to put the Co-anon meeting schedule on the CA web site.
Randy: It’s Lisa, isn’t it?
Trevor: Yes. She sent her letter to Kim, to the Trustees. Kim sent her a standard Thank you; we’ll get back within 30 days. She emailed me and said I contacted the World and they said it’ll take 30 days. That was like Friday when I was coming down here when it came in, so I haven’t yet posted that. It will take 30 days but…
Randy: She didn’t like my answer when she called me.
Trevor: To me it’s we already have decided that we’re not affiliated, so it is not a proper thing to have it, if you guys are ok with it.
Richard: We referenced it?
Randy: In the committee guidelines there is a very nice paragraph as to how recognize Co-anon to any of our events, or any of our semi affiliation, or whatever you want to call it in that paragraph, and I’m director of that. The issue really boiled down to that they had an individual in Denver that tried to go to a Co-anon meeting and it was dark. Then they went to a CA meeting and basically ripped CA for the Co-anon meeting being dark. She said can I do this, can I show this, and when I directed that was not traditionally how any of the areas dealt with meeting schedules and Co-anon schedules in the past, I’m guessing that she maybe thought she could seek another opinion that might be different than what she got from me.
Trevor: So I guess my question to you guys is are you guys confident that—do you want me to print it back for you or can I just answer her based on prior written material that we already have approved?
Richard: And CC the group.
Trevor: Ok, so I will look after that in the next week in an email.
Kim: So I should leave that on our agenda?
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Trevor: You can leave it on just for now. As soon as I craft a response on Monday or Tuesday, I’ll CC it to you guys and you can put in the complete file. One thing that I didn’t put on the agenda that I will just make a request for it; it’s not really an assignment or anything, as always we are looking for new grams submissions. Based on a request I had on Thursday afternoon out of my region, I’m going to be crafting one regarding why it’s important to support Delegates attending the Regional and World business events, not the Convention but the Regional Assembly and the Conference. I will be crafting that and that will come before you guys before it gets sent off because it’s going to be a WSBT thing. I’m going to work on that in the next week to get that out. If there is anybody else that wants to write anything in the new grams…
Richard: I have yet to do a submission, but I will get one done this year.
Kim: Within 14 days?
Richard: No.
Trevor: What we are facing with Facebook right now, we’ve kind of exhausted the back log of things. We at need at least a couple, like I got to do the Trustee thing, whatever.
Richard: I know we are all trying to do a submission I just wanted to say that I was one of the ones that have not done a submission.
Joy: I haven’t either.
Randy: Ok. 03 and 04, can we recognize those as new business items as being handled in either the Board to Board or with the online Skype meeting or handled in previous motions?
Richard: It wasn’t handled; I don’t want to give the wrong perception. Skype wasn’t handled.
Randy: Skype meeting wasn’t? I resume permission to ask the committee to ask the committee.
Kim: Nothing can be removed at this point, but it can be moved to old business for now.
Trevor: I would like to follow up on it rather than…
Randy: That’s a specific request.
Trevor: You’ve been given a charge to move forward, right?
Kim: So follow up at Conference call.
Trevor: Just report on what the committee said.
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Randy: We also discussed the meeting between Arizona and England and their doing it, if there were any issues and no one had any. I don’t know what updates you want.
Richard: I want to wait and see what happens before it appears as though that is an approved meeting structure. My thing is let’s see how this thing works out with the communication between them working together, see what’s going to happen in the next few months. I don’t want it to be perceived as we now have Skype meetings.
Randy: That is absolutely how it is being perceived come tomorrow morning.
Trevor: It is 9:50. I would like to see us—because Robert is catching a reality early flight—I would like to see us do the—two of the items, the next Conference call and Quarterly meeting we can do in a couple of minutes, but the opening vs. closing marathon meetings at the World Convention may require slightly more discussion as far as what we’re going to do depending on how everybody is going to feel about it, how we might want to approach that.
Randy: There is a very simple solution.
Richard: Tell us.
Randy: In the program of our Conventions we recognized marathon meetings to be closed meetings. They are free but…in a little simple sentence the marathon meetings are…
Joy: Per the Convention guidelines, they’re open.
Randy: I understand.
Joy: They are not closed, there’s a problem.
Trevor: That’s why we’re not going to discuss it now; we are going to have a break. It’s 9:50.
Trevor: Welcome back, it is 10:15 p.m. We are back on record at business item number
2010.02.01-date and time for the next WSBT Conference call. I’ve been scouting out possible dates online.
Everyone: Discussing their schedules.
Randy: Will the IT group be looking at how to house the groups internally on the CA domain shortly?
Richard: Shortly, no. We have previously and it was because of the relationship and the ownership the domain being the office it needs to go through the office and the office to ask the IT committee to help and their support.
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Randy: Sorry for getting us off track.
Richard: No it’s good for everyone to know the considerations that are taken.
Trevor: It is official; the next WSBT Conference call is scheduled for April 11 @ 10 a.m. pacific. The next item of business is the date and time for the next WSBT Quarterly meeting, which will start in May.
Joy: The 23rd?
Trevor: That is the meeting where we’re going to have final Conference prep, because we are not be able to do Conference prep at the Conference Quarterly because we are going to be too busy with TEC, so we’re going to try and jam through the business then so I would like to kind get it done in May. If we start the 23rd that gives us Sunday, Monday, is that enough time to do our regular Quarterly so that Tuesday we are freed up for any TEC interviews that we can possibly get in?
Everyone: Discussing when the best time to start the Quarterly before the Convention.
Trevor: If there are no objections we will schedule it for the 24th. The next item of business is 2010.02.06-because 05 is the Director ratification and Willie that was done. We sent it back to WSOB saying please get us more candidates.
Willie: Weren’t you going to make a motion?
Richard: I was when we came back to business. What was the motion that was made?
Willie: The motion was to hold off and have them put it out for 30 days.
Richard: I would like to make a motion to resend.
Joy: Second.
Willie: Would that be a motion to resend or a motion to reconsider?
Trevor: No, it would be a resend because you’re taking away the motion.
Richard: It’s still the same day of business.
Kim: Verification, on which minutes was that?
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Trevor: This one was from this Quarterly. The one we talked about last night. About items to be discussed before the Board to Board, it was on the Director ratification. It was sometime in the last 48 hours.
Willie: It was last night.
Trevor: To resend a motion means that the motion is taken away like it was never done.
Richard: Correct.
Trevor: To reconsider is slightly different.
Richard: My reasoning for—May I speak to?
Trevor: Has it been seconded?
Richard: Yes.
Trevor: Ok.
Richard: I would like to speak to in favor of resending the motion because after communications from the Chair and a review of where we were directed in the manual it is the Chair’s directive to gather the resumes and candidates for that position.
Nicholas: So that is why you have chosen to resend the motion as if it had not happened.
Trevor: Is there anymore discussion?
Randy: I agree. I think he was very clear. He showed us exactly where in the manual that gave him the responsibility and the direction to do so.
Richard: And he did it.
Trevor: Seeing no further debate I going to ask Kim to please reread the motion.
Kim: Motion to resend in regards to previous motion that stated a motion to request the WSOB to use the channel on the WSOT to the PSR to announce that there is a Director position.
Trevor: Does everybody know what we’re voting on? All in favor? All opposed? With limited opposition the motion carries with the 2/3’s requirement to resend the previously passed motion. That item is back on the table. We are at 2010.02.05-Director ratification.
Willie: I make a motion to accept Patrick Potter and Elizabeth Saldebar that was brought forth by the WSOB as Director Candidates.
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Richard: Second.
Trevor: We have a motion by Willie to accept the nominations brought forth from the WSOB for the Director of our position of Patrick Potter and Elizabeth Saldebar, it has been seconded by Richard. Just for everybody’s clarification there is one position. We are going to do it like Trustee slate. We’ll put down both names and you can—however you want to do this.
Joy: I just wrote who I wanted to vote for.
Trevor: They need 2/3’s majority to be ratified. You vote for one or the other and whoever that person is then they will need to get the 2/3’s to get ratified, unless they get it the first time, but to be ratified it requires 2/3’s majority vote.
Kim: Don’t we have to ratify the slate first? Both of them have to receive 2/3’s majority to be considered. If you want both, you write both. If you one, you write one. If want none, you write none.
Joy: Is this just to ratify the slate?
Trevor: Yes. Why don’t we do it like at the Conference when we’re doing the TEC slate where by unanimous consent ratify the slate, if it’s not then we will do each individually and then we will vote on who we want. Does anybody object to that? That would mean by unanimous consent we would accept both or we would have to do them each individually and then we can move forward from there, should they both be ratified, voting for which one we would like. Is there any objection to doing it that way?
Joy: So it’s a motion to just ratify the slate? And then we will actually vote…
Richard: We are going ratify the slate put forth by the World Service Office Board.
Joy: Ok.
Trevor: By unanimous consent is there any objection to ratifying either Patrick Potter or Elizabeth Saldebar? Ok now we have an objection. Take us off-line.
Trevor: We are back on the record at 11 p.m. We have just gone through the procedure based on the 2/3’s ratification not required for Trustees but for the position of World Service Office Director @ Large. We have two candidates, both candidate have failed to receive the 2/3’s majority required for ratification purposes; therefore we do not have a new Director @ Large.
Richard: Can we go back off the record?
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Trevor: Sure.
Trevor: We are back on the record after going through the discussion and ratification of the candidate Elizabeth Saldebar for the position of Director @ Large of the World Service Office Board. Elizabeth has been successfully ratified and is now the Director @ Large of the WSOB. It is 10 minutes to 12; we still have the open vs. closed version of the marathon of the World Convention if you guys want to hammer that out tonight? If nobody is saying no we’re going to get at it. We’ll take a 10 minute break.
Trevor: It is 12:07 a.m. on Sunday morning, and we are back on the record for business item 2010.02.06-open/closed marathon meetings at the World Convention.
Joy: It says in the Convention guidelines in bold letters with a note, marathon meetings leadership will be chosen from a wide international geographic area as possible to maximize world participation and the diversity of the fellowship. Marathon meetings are considered open CA meetings and as such will follow the 7th Tradition. Do we really have the place to change what the Subcommittee and what the Conference has already put in the guidelines? I think not. I think there’s a problem; I see a referral, referral, and referral.
Randy: Again, it’s what the guidelines say; we read an anonymity statement that basically addresses all those attending this from any other body or any other reason besides being a drug addict that we ask them to respect the anonymity of what they see during the meeting.
Willie: The World Convention has a lot of family members that attend. I’ve been at a lot of marathon meetings and I’ve seen a lot of family members attending those meetings. At lot of family members also register at that Convention, and to say that they cannot come in, will take something away from that particular Convention.
Richard: I just have a question, what’s the issue on how it got on the agenda. I know it was discussed earlier today but I’d like to refresh.
Trevor: It was asked of Kim from this year’s Convention committee to look at it, so we are looking at it.
Richard: Ok. So our Convention committee of 2010 has asked us to look at this issue because the current guidelines leave them concerned as to whether or not they are open or closed?
Kim: This evolved out of the Hospital and Institution Chair for the committee in reference to facilitators being or accompanying a patient to the Convention and how those people would be registered. A conversation moved forward as to whether or not the marathon meetings were open or closed and then it continued to evolve out of that. I would be happy to research it again and read from their Yahoo group if you would like.
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Richard: That was enough information. I would like to make a motion to move this online so that we can request the H&I person that inquired about this to find out if there is any intention that a non CA members attending the meetings.
Trevor: Is there a seconded for that motion? No there is no seconded for that motion. My take on is that with what Joy read about how it’s open and then point 60 in the Convention guidelines and is not comprehensive and don’t cover all six situations which this one does. When this question arises, these are the people responsible. As many of the aspects of the World Service Convention have the potential to affect the fellowship as a whole. This aspect already is covered and the only way, in my opinion is that this Board could act as if we feel that the Conference had made an error in their decision and that it greatly affects CA as a whole there by empowering us to reverse that decision. I would believe, my opinion would be, that would be a 2/3’s majority vote for this Board to pull the trigger on that.
Nicholas: Who’s afraid here? We’re junkies. We say we’re junkies. There’s a preamble. We are going discussed drugs, taking and stopping, that’s we talk about, not able submarines, eating candy, we’ll going to talk about drugs and the way out and a solution. New comers talk shit, that’s their job. They think like shit, that’s what we think. Why is something that H&I was really concern that we are talking about drugs and anonymity, we are drug addicts, it’s says open. He can inform his kind, it’s open. Who’s afraid? If you mom comes with you, she knows you’re a junkie, probably. If you didn’t involve her you wouldn’t have invited her. And if she didn’t know she would have come anyway because wouldn’t know you’re a junkie. I don’t understand his reasoning and why someone, not to say the committee, someone suddenly what’s to start changing things being the guidelines 2 months before is beyond me. Has this ever come up before?
Trevor: Not to my knowledge.
Nicholas: A lot of these things coming up with this committee has never come up before and really troubles me. I don’t know. The guidelines seem to have worked for lots of years, doesn’t mean there right, they seemed to have worked. My experience when you get to meetings and some ones mom comes then can we not mention drugs, its Cocaine Anonymous not tea and biscuits. There opening discussion of God, of matters tis, tis, tis….I know why I’m here and the people that come into the open meetings, as long as the disclaimer is read out all opinions tis, tis, tis.
Joy: Here’s the thing, there are Co-anon members that register for the Convention, there are spouses that we register for the Convention, and sometimes they sit in the marathon meetings with us just so that they can sit next to us and be near us because the marathon meetings are open. They sit in the speaker meetings, they’re open also after the banquet, but I think that you have to be registered, no, speaker meetings are open too. Why would we close the marathon meetings to someone who maybe at 2:00 in the morning happens upon the Convention and needs
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a meeting and guess what, there’s one going on and they may not have admitted to the fact that they are an addict yet but they happened upon the hotel that is actually hosting a Convention and they went in and sat in a marathon meeting and went I might be an addict. That is the purpose of open meetings. They are open to everyone, whether you indentify or not.
Kim: I’m in favor of allowing the host city to work this out. I trust that, based on the discussion on the Yahoo group, that their looking for solutions. They’re working towards a solution to this. They see the nature of why they are open. There are probably a handful of them that are concerned about that, not afraid but concerned, for one reason or another. I’m favor of allowing them to figure this out. I trust that they will. Based on pasted Conventions and their discussion, they’ll figure it out. I wish all of you were privy to all of the discussion that they have had about this. They’ve had really good discussions. It was something came up and I brought it to your attention and part of me says I appreciate the direction to say—I’m sure a lot of referrals have come out this Convention. I’m looking at it potential is that we could beat this out and tomorrow morning. I would like to put a little faith in this group to figure out what needs to be done best. It says here on page 33 of the guidelines, speaker meetings are open to anyone wishing to hear message. There is no specific language to the marathon meetings. Maybe we need to allow this committee to figure it out. Marathon meetings are considered open CA meetings as such will follow 7th Tradition, which kind of seems odd to me unless whatever disclaimer they’re reading says anybody that is not an addict let the basket go by. All other meetings and activities throughout the Convention are registered events. This came out of the fact that anybody who registers is going to have a badge and that pretty much permits them to do anything and go anywhere. We do have a prevision that we read the 12 th Tradition pretty much at everything, marathon meetings, speaker meetings I believe, so the truth be said as much as we would like everyone to adhere to the 12th Tradition, not everything that is said here stays here. I’d like us to remove this from our agenda and at this point allow them to hammer this out or figure it out and if we need to get involved—I’ve heard a lot from our people at this Convention committee level. They have pretty strong opinions about that logo that I colored in error, but sometimes I think that we have to lean on the side of—maybe saying optimism in the fact that members of our fellowship aren’t always out to hurt us. I get the thing with the logo thing, I get it. Based on our trademark and copyright and all that, but I’m pretty sure not one of those people was looking to harm CA as a whole with their fondly hearted attempt to attract people to that event through that diversion of our logo. I motion to remove this from our agenda until further need for us to address it.
Robert: Second.
Trevor: Based upon the fact I had two other people on the list, I’m going to rule that out of order as to be debated and then made a motion which is against the rules of debate, sorry.
Kim: I would challenge the Chair on that. I was discussing the agenda item, just as the others did.
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Trevor: My decision has been challenged, it is Nicholas’ deal.
Willie: Summarize the challenging of the Chair’s ruling.
Joy: I’m looking at the whole part of the debate and then making a motion based on the debating of an agenda item and making a motion to remove from the agenda that was the motion.
Nicholas: You can’t debate and make a motion at the same time.
Robert: Appeal from decision, is that what we are doing? Any decision by the Chair person may be appealed. The appeal is debatable only if the challenge decision was first based on a debatable motion. The appeal requires a second and a majority vote reverses the decision of the Chair. All appeals must be immediately after the decision in question.
Nicholas: So you’re making an appeal, we need a second. Is that a second on that? Please repeat that again, please Robert.
Robert: Appeal from decision. Any decision by the Chair person may be appealed. The appeal is debatable only if the challenge decision was first based on a debatable motion. The appeal requires a second and a majority vote reverses the decision of the Chair. All appeals must be immediately after the decision in question.
Nicholas: So it has been seconded so now we have to vote? It debatable but we’ve got to vote. Everyone want to get on a list?
Willie: Point of information. Joy’s looking at whether the motion is in order or not. Whether you can debate and make a motion?
Nicholas: The Chair ruled that in his opinion there was debate and then there was a motion immediately and he considers that a wrong thing and that’s where we are. The appeal is that’s not what happened.
Randy: So really the issue is whether we were discussion a motion—does debate only take place after a motion is presented?
Joy: No.
Nicholas: We were having a debate.
Randy: We were in debate over an item on the agenda.
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Nicholas: Usually when you are debating you see and then someone makes a motion. You don’t have to debate to get a second to the motion. That’s what the Chair considers was a wrong move. Kim was saying that she wasn’t debating.
Randy: I’m not sure we haven’t been doing it all night long.
Nicholas: It’s a bit late and that’s all the Chair is saying at the moment. Basically what Robert has brought out seems to me that the person that made the appeal can state their case, being seconded and there is some debate about what it is then we take a vote and then we move on. I don’t think we need to be looking at other…
Kim: So I speak to my challenge?
Nicholas: Yes, why you think it wasn’t in debate and went straight to a motion.
Kim: I don’t believe that I was debating, I was discussing the merits and I was asked question as to what occurred at the committee meeting and how I felt that the committee based on what our guidelines say and the Conference floor has indicated by the guidelines that we are not of position and that—now it sounds like I am debating it. Actually I didn’t say any of that when I was discussing it. I was asked a question how this all transpired and how it came about. Basically stating the facts of the situation and just feel overall that what position are we going to take, is there something different that was going to be discussed, I think not, whether or not we are in position to move forward with any affirmative or directive to this committee.
Nicholas: From what I hear it’s almost a question. That is what Kim is saying, does anybody want to make a comment of that? Whether you think it was debate or not debate and then we’ll have a vote.
Randy: I think Trevor gets his speak.
Nicholas: He gets first if he wants it, or we can just pass and we can pass on our way back. Does anyone want to back him up, or are you against that, what do you want to do? Kim said what she thinks her version of what happened and the Chair has already said what he thinks transpired.
Does anybody want to say?
Willie: If I’m not mistaken, I thought I heard Kim start her conversation off by saying I’m in favor of letting the committee work this out. It did kind of seem like she went into some explanations but I believe she’s right. After she asked the question she kind of brought it to that point, but I did believe she started off by saying I’m in favor of letting the committee work this out.
Nicholas: Does anybody else have anything?
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Richard: I don’t know if it’s valid but I can’t think of the topic or word that I thought I had at first, but I believe there was debate in there. I’ll wait and see if the Chair’s comments are…
Trevor: Under Robert’s rules of order, under the rules of debate, a debate is always started off by either speaking for or against or asking a question. I felt that Kim was initially asking for an answer in a question it got very much into what she thought we should do which was let the committee make their decision and I took that as direct debate as to a course of action we should take. The only reason that I ruled her making a motion out of order—it’s very much to me along the same lines as to motion to close debate, there is nobody in line after it’s out of order then people in line that hadn’t spoken yet that I felt deserved an opportunity to do that before a motion was made. At that point we run things somewhat loose a little bit, not entirely according to Robert’s rules, we still follow them, I took a lot of what we do as discussing informally and I think that very much along the lines of by unanimous consent it speeds things up and helps us move along without getting quite so formal without being a Robert’s rule thumper, which I used to love being at home. I’m a lot more flexible now with certain things that are technically right out of the book; however I do feel that I made the right decision to take Kim’s comments as debates and thereby making the rules of debate such that we can’t do a debate and then immediately follow that with a motion. That is why I ruled the way that I did and you guys either agree or disagree and I do whatever way because I still love her.
Nicholas: We are voting whether we think Kim’s version of events was that she was trying to answer a question with the best of her ability and there was not leading or pointing or any direction, or any suggestions of debate or we think that the Chair detected some slight debate and decided to make a motion immediately was out of order. He thought there were two people on the list and further decision was warranted. So we either want to go with the appeal or against the Chair. You are going to vote whether Trevor’s ruling was the correct ruling, having heard the appeal and the Chair’s comments to the response.
Kim: And let’s vote in favor of Trevor because I would like to hear the other two people who may have these different opinions.
Nicholas: A show of hands to back the Chair up and move on, six to one. I’m sure the debates are really fascinating but I’m still of the opinion, just because the committee or a person doesn’t particularly like it. This is my experience, we have closed meetings, somebody’s mom walks in and sit down, and I’ve seen this. The Chair walked up to me do you know what this is, and he said yes you are all a bunch of junkies, anymore questions, and that was the end of that. This is a closed meeting, she didn’t leave, she said I’ve have a desire to stop and banged in. People are going to say whatever they want to say; either closed or open people are going to do what they do. I still think its fear. There are big notices, there are registration forms, and everyone hopefully knows what’s going on. I hear this and that and their concerns but I’m sure this has been up before. I’ve seen this. Someone’s mom might be there, or someone’s partner, if you are bringing your partner or any relation to the place, hope to God they know what’s going on, and the odd person that might walk in—I remember Carl, Tony, Jay, and Hayward at the end of
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World Service Convention and a guy came in and he had been smoking and he sat down and we talked to him a bit. He said what you do at this meeting? He said can anybody come to the meeting? We all said anyone is allowed in the meeting. He said I might come next time and then he walked off. Imagine if they said no it’s a closed meeting, it’s only for people that say they are drug addicts, I don’t think he would ever come back and maybe that guy came back. They told him that the marathon meeting he was about to go is an open meeting and anyone’s welcome. He said well I’m not sure. I said that’s ok. That moved me and I remember that story. I think closed meetings are little bit dangerous. I don’t like it. We’re here and we’re free and I think we should be for everyone, and occasionally there will be mistakes and on occasional people are going to get upset. There are big signs and notices everywhere, it’s Cocaine Anonymous, and it’s not Hersey Bars. It’s not pretty fluffy stuff it’s Cocaine Anonymous.
Randy: I saw some of the feedback, Evan copied me with some of it because we talked about it with our Marathon Subcommittee Chair person and what they thought and got some of Evan’s feedback as well. I think one of the comments that I was reading and some of the stuff from the H&I is that these facilitator are bringing these guys in and they going to be new and dah, dah, dah, and that they are afraid of the facilitator—if the facilitator put them in the Van and drove them over, he already knows whether he’s bringing them over there. To admit that you are a drug addict in front of the facilitator that gives you a ride to the Convention, that didn’t seem like that was going to surprise anybody. Or the fear that a new comer wouldn’t stand up and introduce himself because they were afraid of who might be in the room, they are already scared to death of who’s in the room. They might be more scared of that than dying and not care. That’s the personal opinion, bottom line I thought that it made it onto our agenda because we were asked to give our opinion. I would speak against not giving one because we do have a manual that we are here to support. We can go we talked about it and we pretty much trust you guys to do what you want. No, we got a manual and this is what the manual says, so we would ask that as your area puts on this Convention that we go by the manual.
Trevor: As it stands right now I have no more people on the list.
Joy: I make a motion to remove 2010.02.06 from our agenda.
Robert: Second.
Trevor: Motion by Joy to remove 2010.02.06-the open/closed marathon meetings at the World Convention from our agenda and that was seconded by Robert, is there anymore discussion?
Richard: Point of information. Was this submitted as an inquiry for a response from us?
Kim: No, not necessarily.
Richard: How did this come?
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Kim: I got it forward because it was a poll on their Yahoo group.
Richard: The poll on the Yahoo group which I recall, but there was no inquiry as to what is…
Kim: They inquired what my opinion was as a Trustee, what’s the Trustee’s position on it.
Richard: Did you give them one?
Kim: I said I guess I’ve never really thought about it other than I just always thought they were open. They were open meetings.
Richard: And with that response was there, I know this is another point of information, but with that response was there a response or another inquiry?
Kim: To me?
Richard: Yes.
Kim: No.
Richard: Do you feel we would be slighting them or not providing more further information they were awaiting by removing this from our agenda?
Joy: Do you want me to write them a response?
Richard: Actually I don’t. I just want to make sure that we didn’t owe them anything.
Joy: There’s no formal request.
Kim: I was looking for some feedback.
Richard: Are you glad?
Kim: Well unfortunately like I said, unless I was able to go through every single point, there’s more than one point, it’s the confidentially vs. anonymity when it comes to the facilitators. It’s registered, non registered attendees, it is the members attending, the overall spirit of the conversation of the Yahoo group is a result of this, I’m pretty sure they are going to have open meetings and that’s why, after everything I was discussing regarding the topic, was that I think that our per the Convention guidelines, and they have this whole opening, that we really need— and again this is my interpretation of an open meeting is that anybody’s there and we should not be asking people to identify themselves and yet we do, so there’s the other point.
Randy: What does the anonymity statement say, exactly?
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Kim: Well for according to what they have in their Yahoo group it says marathon meetings are considered open CA meetings and such will follow the 7th Tradition. All of our meetings and activities during the Convention are for registered attendees only. Each marathon meeting will utilize the World Service Conference approved speaker participation meeting format. They ask, not to embarrass you, but to get to know you better, is anyone in their first 30 days of sobriety? Would you please stand and state your name and your disease. So there are several aspects here, it’s not just anyone going into an open meeting, it’s the facilitator’s, and like I said, it’s anonymity vs. like confidentially. Pretty much everybody I’ve ever met that’s a facilitator, probably 90% of them, are one of us to begin with or like you said, the riding over on the bus they probably know your story anyway.
Joy: I think I have a point of order.
Kim: Am I debating something again?
Richard: We have a motion to debate.
Joy: We have a motion to remove the item off the agenda, not debate the item, I’m sorry.
Trevor: And I believe that Kim’s argument went to why she felt that way.
Joy: Why she felt what?
Trevor: That is should be removed. She thought they were going to do what it says in the guidelines and that’s how I took it.
Joy: That’s why I said I think I have…Thank you, I’m not challenging. Go ahead, I’m sorry.
Kim: My reason that I wanted to make a motion was to avoid all of this. I’m not sure that the additional comments provided any other direction as to how a motion would have ultimately gone if after the discussion.
Joy: Does that answer your question Richard?
Kim: I don’t feel the necessity to debate the actual motion.
Richard: We’ve moved on the Randy.
Kim: I’ll be able to answer a question at this point again.
Richard: Move on.
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Kim: Thank you Richard.
Randy: I know in Denver they read the anonymity statement at every marathon meeting which meant…
Kim: I understand. It’s the 12th Tradition disclaimer. They are required by the guidelines to read it. I understand, but let’s face it, as transparent that any of us might be there are certain arena’s that people are not willing to be transparent.
Randy: Ok.
Kim: I know that you look like kind of you’re confused by that, that there are people that…
Randy: I just don’t understand if then so if the new comers afraid to stand up that he still gets a meeting. Then don’t stand up but come.
Kim: I get the impression Randy that you think that everything is very simple for everyone to understand and it’s not the case.
Joy: Do we really have the authority to circumvent the Conference.
Trevor: That’s what I had stated earlier is that unless we felt as a Board this circumvented the Traditions and gravely affected CA as a whole I would rule that we did not.
Joy: I would agree.
Trevor: So basically unless they’re going to come and say no we’re going to make it closed. If they came with that then we would have the authority to step in and say thank you, but the conference has already decided no you’re not.
Kim: Just like they weren’t suppose to use the word picnic, so.
Joy: Right, exactly.
Kim: And like I said I put it forth during the Board to Board to get some feedback and…
Randy: Have they post the result of their poll?
Kim: No. I don’t think nobody actually voted on the poll at all. They just talked.
Richard: Because the poll before that is should we have polls.
Kim: Like I said it’s probably a lot of referrals. There is a motion.
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Trevor: We have a motion by Joy to remove business item 2010.02.06-open/closed marathon meetings of the World Convention, and that was seconded by Robert, is there further discussion to removing this agenda? All in favor? All opposed? With noted opposition the motion carries.
Kim: I just really wonder why?
Richard: I think quickly for our information only because since there was so much discussion on it here and there was discussion on the Yahoo group I just wanted to follow-up so it was on our agenda so we got a follow-up report if anything ever came of it. That’s the only reason that I voted no.
Randy: I voted no because I think she was asked as a Trustee what her opinion was.
Richard: I think she gave it. I asked that question, she gave it and there was no further follow-up to it, so I believe they were given the position, she informed us of what she did and the only reason that I wanted it was incase anything came of it.
Trevor: We have reached that point that the only thing let on our agenda is the group inventory. We are not doing that now, we are going to break. Anybody that wishes can meet at 8:00 for breakfast and decide if we are going somewhere else or stay at the Palm Grill. Is there any objection to doing personal sharing and the group inventory now then raping this up and adjourning for the Quarterly and being done with it, so Lawrence and Robert both get a chance to participate? I see no objections.
Richard: Quick bio-break Mr. Chair?
Trevor: We could do that.
Trevor: We are back on the record, its 1:30 a.m. Sunday.
Joy: Motion to adjourn.
Richard: Seconded.
Trevor: We have a motion to adjourn by Joy, seconded by Richard. All in favor? All opposed? Motion passes.
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For all attached documents and reports see pdf: 2010-02-26-28-WSBT-Quarterly-Minutes.pdf