CA WORLD SERVICE World Service Board of Trustees and World Service Office Board MEETING MINUTES
November 8th, 2008
APPROVED
Since this report is a confidential CA document, for members only, it may contain members’ full names. This usage to facilitate communication within the fellowship was approved by the 1990 WS Conference. Such confidential use does not, of course, violate in anyway our Tradition on anonymity in public communications media (press, radio, TV, etc).
Los Angeles, CA – Final Approved – Page 1 of 54
WSBT/WSOB Board to Board Meeting
November 8, 2008
2:00 p.m.
Open with a moment of silence, followed by the “WE” version of the Serenity Prayer.
Roll call:
Hayward Hunt: WST—WSBT Chair
John Bodkin: WSOB Chair person
Willie Bailey: WSOT
Taffy Wallace: Director of Operations WSO
Nicholas Lynn: ERT
Richard Schafer: Trustee at Large
Trevor Scheilbe: PNRT
Tom Phalen: WSOB Treasurer
Lawrence Matlock: ASRT—WSBT Vice-Chair
Patty Flannigan: Director of Resource and Project Development
Robert Lyle: ANRT
Richard Leve: WSOB Director at Large
Randy Groen: SWRT
Joy Hutcheson: PSRT
Kim Sherwan: MSRT—WSBT Secretary
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Hayward: Welcome everyone. Opening remarks by WSBT Chair & WSOB Chair. I’m glad everyone’s here. Thanks for your time today and glad to see everyone.
John: Once again it’s a privilege to all be able to get together in the same room. Thanks for that. I got a text message out to Theresa, so we can find her.
Hayward: Does everyone have an agenda? Before we get into the agenda, a few things that John had. You can put it as number nine and scratch number nine from the closing serenity prayer at the end. Number nine would be recording secretary for both Boards. Number ten would be P.O. Box for World Service Office. Item number three supplemental reports that, if any, from WSOB and questions from the WSBT. Did everybody get a chance to review the Office Boards Chair’s report? Are there any question? OK, the Vice Chair report. Is there any questions on the Vice Chair report?
John: I think the latest news we have yet to report is that Theresa Neighbors was officially nominated and voted in as our Vice Chair. Which is exciting, we got her back.
Hayward: Treasurer’s report. Any questions on Tom’s report? First is the paid Director. The Director of Operation’s report. Is there questions on Taffy’s report? Any questions on Patty’s report? Any questions on the Secretary’s report?
Joy: Did we get one of those?
Patty: I’m sorry. It’s not on my agenda, and I didn’t report it earlier to make sure that the understanding about the Meditation Book from my report, that the Meditation Book is, as you remember when we had the meeting at the Conference, we (Trevor, Bruce, & Carl) had a meeting with them asking them to include us and to participate with us. That is not moving forward as quickly as we had hoped, but we are getting more materials from the Outreach that we are doing. So we are getting more materials. Our hope is to get this book done, so you guys can look at it at your May meeting. That’s our goal—is to get you guys to approve that by the May meeting and that—it’s going to be a little difficult, and Trevor and I really need to find a way to a meeting with Cynthia to rangel how their doing it. I’ve put out the—the committee told me to make a check list and put it up on their website. I put it up on the Yahoo group, and not one single member has reviewed any of the material. Don’t be surprised if Trevor comes back with a motion that asked the Trustees to say we are gonna—We order you Patty to do the work.
Hayward: Any questions about this?
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John: I’m glad you mentioned it and thanks for trying to keep that moving forward. Do you think it’s going to require any travel on either of your parts to go over and talk to her in person? It is a face to face kind of thing or can we do this over the phone? More travel on her part?
Patty: Right. Yes, it will require someone to travel somewhere.
John: I just interested because, you know the arrangement we had.
Hayward: It couldn’t be handled by conference call between you three?
Patty: I don’t know. If in Patty’s perfect plan and PQ, the model I think we should move to is that the people who are qualified that we think should be qualified to work on the book, we actually bring them into a workgroup and that they do the work with us. I would pay to have Cynthia and Susan or both or not, inviting them to a weekend workshop where we would do the final editing and final choices on that book, and that would be a cost that we might incur. We haven’t made that plan. Cynthia is in line with that plan in a general way. To answer your question, I do think it will be travel with somebody to make sure it gets done.
Hayward: John?
John: I think that’s just wisdom for us to sort of foresee that plan forward for the future, its part of the cost of getting this project done in a real unified way, and also in a practical way there’s some magic that happens when people are into this get face to face. What I also heard you say was that there was lead time up to that point and that much could be done electronically, telephonically. It’s not just all about the face to face. Ultimately, we do need get a couple of us together.
Hayward: Do we have a deadline on that or anything?
Patty: We made one up.
Trevor: I realize this is a big wish, but should we wrap this part of the quarterly meeting up in time tomorrow. I have my LCF Conference call tomorrow. I think it is 10:00 California time that I would love to be on, but if I can’t, obviously I can’t. Regardless, I’m going to make sure this is on the agenda there. I’ll speak to Cynthia tonight and let her know we need to LCF more on board with it with trying to move the process forward. I know there is some efforts in different places to move the process forward, but it is a little b—I was hoping for a little bit more than what we are getting.
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Hayward: Anymore discussion on this? Any other questions? Willie.
Willie: Maybe I should have brought this up during Chair’s report, but the WSOB has asked the WSBT to entertain. Should there be a letter provided to a vendor from the 2009 committee?
Hayward: We are handling that at CAWS 09 report. Any questions on the Director at Large report? Ok, item 4-Conventions. Any discussions or questions on CAWS 09?
John: Just to the Trustees that were involved in that process. We did draft a letter. I signed it and it is here. You’re welcome to review in the interest in moving this issue forward in unity and enthusiasm in getting over the hump. One of the things I read in Beth’s communication, and for those of you who aren’t familiar with the issue, there was a late payment on an invoice that the committee asked the CAWS office to remedy with the vendor. In other words send a letter explaining that we were responsible for that late payment and we didn’t anticipate that it would happen again in the future. There are a couple of miss Q’s along the way and I think this is really where to focus our efforts. Not were mistakes happened but how to remedy that a little more in the future. My thinking on this is that we have a mechanisms through QuickBooks that once on invoice is received in our office, once it’s entered it has a code, it has a number, it has an ID that we can set up some checks and balances with the Treasurer just to double check every month that every invoice that has been sent is actually has a CAWSO bookkeeping code, that it was entered and at that point it is moving forward. There are probably many other mechanisms too. That’s as simple I think the conversation can be at this moment. We did draft a letter—the question in my mind from the very beginning based on the best information I had was—golly, we paid this thing thirty days after we received it in the office—Whether that was by fax or by mail, I done know—or electronically. The first evidence we have stamp on it is August 22, that the office got a hold of it. That’s all. I think better communication means make sure we get our invoices estimates in to the hands of the appropriate people that are a charged with getting that stuff entered in and moving it on through the process. Also, email as much as I love it and think it can be really effectively used, sometimes we forget attachments, sometimes we think we sent it and we didn’t attach it to the email or the file type in unreadable or something like that. I think we need some redundancy in that regards. Better communications, some system that the office can help devise to confirm the receipt of an invoice in the future, I think is the answer Beth was looking for in her letter to us.
Willie: The thing that struck me is the original invoice was not addressed to CAWSO. It was addressed to Regis University.
Tom: Accounts Payable.
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Willie: Right. It didn’t actually come to CAWSO. It didn’t come to CAWSO until August. That’s an issue too—having members and committees, having stuff going somewhere else.
John: To those who are directly involved (Richard & Randy) I wrote a little bit about my concerns about that. I think everybody on this committee has come to the table with professional intentions and best efforts to move things along. Do the work that we charged them with. That was possibility one of the miss Q’s this time, also. We got it now, and we are prepared as an organization to say that CAWSO is responsible for that. Before we apologize to any company or vendor, that we all be aware that we’re willing to make that remediation if you feel it’s appropriate. The letter is in Taffy’s folder. You can take a look at it before it goes. It’s very simple language.
Hayward: Randy as the Trustee on that committee, do you have any concerns?
Randy: When Richard and I starting getting emails back and forth, and I think both of us in a couple of emails we sent said that obviously there’s always another side to every story, so let’s gather this information before we do anything. Their concern, obviously in as a Trustee with that region, would be that if we got culpable responsibility we have to recognize that people often use relationships, personal relationships, business relationships and if World Service, in any way, shape, or form, were not responsible, or found to be irresponsible, then we owe someone some satisfaction in clearing their personal relationship with that vendor. That’s when we started seeing more of some of the other issues. The invoice that was actually paid, was that redirected and reestablished then as a CAWSO invoice or is it still…? It was obviously not her best interest to go through all of that with us necessarily, so some of the information we got was a little short as well. What do you think she needs?
Richard S: I think John has a good feel for it. If they’re comfortable with that approach I think that would satisfy the Steering committee without issue. Go for it.
Randy: With this letter being actually sent.
Richard S.: I do.
Taffy: Does anyone else need to be CC’d on that letter?
John: I don’t know.
Taffy: I was just throwing it out there if anyone else needs to be CC’d on it other than Mido.
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John: I tried to keep it regional general.
Randy: Yes, and you’re not pointing the finger back at them and yet we’re not saying we actually intentionally didn’t pay our bill.
John: Did I hear her say there was procedural oversight somehow, somewhere…
Randy: Yeah, and both of us realized that was probably why we didn’t go jump off the building or something. Thank you very much.
Tom: I would like to commend the office on the fact that if we’re going to error we are going to error in the proper direction of discomprudency because anytime we get a bill in that doesn’t look—that’s billed to someone different, it’s better to be looked at again. You can’t pay that thing in thirty days; it’s got to take time. We get a bill and it’s billed to Regis University accounts payable, it better be looked at, because it’s not Cocaine Anonymous. First of all it’s a tradition issue. It creates an affiliation. It’s not billed to CAWSO. If the relationship should have been with CAWSO and it wasn’t—in my mind it should have taken ninety days to pay. It shouldn’t have taken thirty days.
Randy: I just heard that we didn’t get the invoice in CAWSO until it said CAWSO on it.
Tom: No, it came before that.
Patty: I interact with the committee. When anything is wrong that fix it through my communications with them. After they fix it then Taffy is going to pay the bill.
Tom: If that check comes to me and if I happen to be signing that day—why are we paying the thing for it’s billed to Regis University.
Randy: So, we received the invoice?
Patty: We got an email from Maria and then it took up over—they did it May—they did it in the beginning of May—so, it didn’t come back to us as an invoice until August. Now it’s an invoice. That’s the right way. It goes through our—over here where I’m the Convention liaison at first— usually we get quicker responses from people.
Randy: So, the Regis’ invoice was received at the office in May?
Patty: I’m guessing it was May.
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Tom: Yes, it was May.
Hayward: What’s the date on that?
John: I learned specifically, the date was May 28th. The date five twenty eight. It was sent to the CAWSO general mail box. I believe Patty’s personal email. It didn’t go through what I would consider necessarily the direct channels for getting into bookkeeping cycle. She did give them feedback on how to…
Patty: And Beth was ok with it. That’s where we get all—Beth was ok with it through June and July while she was having her child.
John: Here’s the weird area, I guess to just to lay it out on the table, there’s a couple tradition issues that may rub up against that concern us also risking the anonymity factor. If a business relationship, with a committee member, is damaged or risked at any level and then it requires Cocaine Anonymous to hard charge in and say it was our fault and that member’s anonymity can be at risk. And of course, there’s another tradition issue there. It’s all very—it’s gotten to a place where I just wish it didn’t have to get to. Hopefully, by willing to move forward that the members ok, we can learn from this and do it better in the future, which is what I really want to talk about, which is getting something more systematic that aids every Convention committee going forward with the system of checks and balances on our invoices.
Which we have, but in this case it failed us a little bit. We are not perfect people on these volunteer committees. I know you guys were talking about it. Somehow Beth’s and your communication didn’t make it back to the Steering committee.
Nick: Is there anything in the World Service Convention financial guidelines that addresses that? Like CAWS twelve, I’ve got no experience. The people on the committee probably won’t ever know about this, but if was a policy procedure put in place, that all bill—personal friendship is one thing but this is a CAWSO event.
Patty: The guidelines list that—and to your Trustee negotiating committee, obviously—say that all contacts must be made in our name, with our address on it.
Nick: So did…
Patty: With our name on it.
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Nick: Does the personal thing come in to prevent that from happening? Why did this happen if it’s in the guidelines? Is it a baby thing and she went a little bit weird? Why didn’t it have CAWSO in the name?
Trevor: Somebody didn’t read the guidelines.
Hayward: Excuse me, Excuse me. Show of hands please. We are talking over each other. Nick are you finished?
Nick: It was in the guidelines, so it was an oversight. We are going to have to address the guidelines.
Patty: No, the guidelines are ok.
Nick: Thank you.
Richard L: Well, all in favor of this being done, because I think the answer is in the solution from the problem and I know it’s been discussed. My question is, Is John going to be signing it?
Patty: Yes
John: I already did.
Richard L.: Alright, and you signed it with a B, John B?
John: I signed John Bodkin Chair person CASWO, Inc.
Richard L.: Ok, because I would have just said to sign it John B and keep it anonymous, but that’s ok.
Hayward: Richard do you have a question?
Richard S.: I just wanted to follow up with that because you did address 2012 and are the guidelines there. Not only are they in the guidelines as I was momentarily Treasurer for that convention. There’s also a one on one that goes on with the office where those procedures are followed through. I had an extensive conversation in my preparation for that position that also went over those guidelines and how things will be submitted. There in place.
Patty: Not a secret.
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Hayward: From there, I had a question for 09. How we you doing with fundraising?
Patty: The fundraising is doing well. I think you guys want to address it. They have some good plans. They have some good set ups that they are working towards that “bago money”..
Richard S.: Bago change
Patty: “Bago Change” got to England and their actually doing that to assist so the Bago Change is going to happen there too. Their fundraising is on track. Mostly from memorabilia that’s being purchased outside of whatever spending committee thinks is possible. We will be working that out.
John: We have the benefit of being able to talk to Patty about it all the time, but did you get a chance to describe to the Board a little about the trip and the hotel, your experience with the committee?
Patty: No, I was saving that for this agenda.
Hayward: Are you saving that for 012?
Richard S.: No, 9.
Patty: Richard was there, I think he represented what happened in that meeting there. The only other thing I want to talk about is 09, really that I want us to hear, is that they have agreed to move to Reg Online into Bear habitat cost. They have agreed to that. 2010 have two qualified data experts who are assisting me in choosing which company to go with. I’m still pretty confident that we are going with REG ONLINE. I attacked them on the first line of defense for the cost. That’s really what my job is by Dec. 31st, another date I made up that I want us online with 2009. We are going to go with 2009 and 2010 that they’re going to be seen with. There’s going to be one basic order form that continues.
John: This is exciting, you guys. It represents a real step forward in accountability and improved customer service, measuring customer response to the product and packages that we are offering. This is going to be, I think, a real mature, amazing step forward. Along with comes a bit of a cost, but I think were strong enough to bear it.
Richard S.: Key with Reg Online is standardized reporting that’s delivered. And that’s key with that and will be nice to see that standardized reporting. Anyone that wants to see it: this is a DVD from the resort walk-through, one Miss Patty came because the Trustee for that—we saved
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money on travel and since I’m there, I took a video camera, video it and put it on DVD. Anyone can watch it and get a feel for the resort.
Patty: I do believe that is really important that we recognize that cost savings too. I think as a group, when we are choosing how we are staffing something, staff the convention with Richard is a reasonable exchange of duties when it comes to making sure we have a cost savings. I think it’s more important that we somebody that gets out to Kansas then it is for you do—jus’ you’re fine with them. They understand you and we need Randy in Kansas more that we need him in Denver.
John: Nevertheless; it doesn’t diminish your involvement because you’re going to continue to be in the loop on those groups.
Hayward: Ok, we are getting a little happy here, but we will go with Tom.
Tom: I have a concern about 2009… I just think in general that we might be hard pressed to meet the numbers that are…we’ll be caring the budget. Is this the perfect place to mention to the people how have the abilities to beat on their areas to get people to go? Whether it’s buses from Arizona and Texas or—I think because that particular one will have to be supported by Southwest Region. Just because of the nature of the times, right now. It’s not anything specific just that times are tough. That thing turns into a $20,000 profit convention, that would be a problem, on top of seventh tradition issues that we have going on away.
John: Are you talking about people’s willingness to spend on travel—discretionary spending? It’s all part of the parcel, it’s not just that conventions budget; it’s that year’s budget that we are talking about.
Tom: I’m talking, right now, specifically about the convention. 7th tradition is a different conversation.
Patty: There’s a high likeliness that instead of producing the $45,000 that they anticipated that they would do, that it would be in my experience it’s looking more like $32-$33. That’s like a $12,000 short fall that we’re facing that we’re just congessive of. Recognize, how can we change that? We’ve only had 530 to 560 people come for the last two years. Why would it be different in Denver? It won’t in my opinion. We’ll be glad if we get those people. Let’s say we get all of those 550 people. The people that are participating at the auction level, if any of those ten people that we depend on for $30,000 aren’t there—what if one of those has something—you know, get a cold. They count on each other for the bidding. They don’t just decide on a big number and
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jump to it. It’s a game. It’s the fun of it. It’s the excitement of it. If anyone of those are missing that $30,000 piece is going to reduce them to $32,000-$33,000.
John: I’m sorry, if we’re very sensitivity about the total contribution by the fellowship and I know Patty is—I’m so glad you said that out loud. It’s the kind of thing we really need to get next to in this meeting. We need to be very realistic, but for the purpose of the recording and the secretary, that’s a hot spot in the minutes. I’d like to just make sure we are sensitivity to when we go back to them. Frame it up correctly. I would hate to think that we get misread that it’s ten people are responsible. In a very real way. I’m glad you talked me out of it out loud. It’s the truth, but it’s a hot spot in the minutes.
Hayward: Thanks true.
Patty: I didn’t say their names.
John: I know you didn’t.
Hayward: What’s going on with registrations?
Patty: We have 20 registrations. But that’s not uncommon. December 31st is the time. Between January 1st and March 1st, I think they only have one deadline for this committee—as I remember. Between that time, we anticipate that 200 people will register and then another 150 people will register before we actually get onsite, from the deadline date to the onsite date. We will 300 and some registrations before we get onsite if the current model continues to work would be really nice.
Richard L: Not that we’re allied with any sect domination or outside enterprise, but Southwest, right now, is $69 to Denver and it goes all the way to the month of May. If you can lock in a cheap airfare rate and if you push it—$69 each ways, it’s a little bit pliable for people. It’s the same price for Salt Lake City.
Taffy: You’re right about that. Joy just said—“Book ours now.”
Patty: Do you know when our meeting is going to start? No. They don’t when their meeting is going to start. Is going to start on Sunday or is going to start on Monday?
Hayward: We’ll figure that out.
Patty: I vote for Monday. Let’s go.
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Hayward: We got a lot of stuff on this agenda. We’ve been stuck on this for a few minute. CAWS 2010?
Kim: I went to their last meeting, which was last Sunday. They seem to have a lot of participation. They’re still filling positions. There seems to be some questions in regards to the registration, although Jill was pretty confident about the Reg Online, which sounds really good. A couple of questions that they had were the email addresses. How there get those special email addresses, which I’m not sure.
Richard S.: Through the web site.
Patty: They get the web site on Sunday of the convention. Sunday of 2009 it switches over and they’re forward, if it’s working the same way as it use to work.
Richard S: It will.
Patty: It says, World Service Convention Treasurer, World Service Hotel Liaison etc, and that forwards to the email addresses that they have on file with the World Service office.
Kim: Ok.
Patty: If they want to reply from that email address, we have other issues. Most have not wanted to.
John: Initially, the most important thing is to make sure the record keeping reflects their most current email address.
Kim: Right. I know they have a question regarding the online store. I know we talked about that earlier, when that will be switched over on the new server.
Patty: They’re a part of our impatice that is going to move us forward. What our intention is is to have a page that has basically memorabilia or items other than recovery based items, is what our intention is. On that page it will show 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012. From that page you can click onto 2009 and see all their pre-convention memorabilia, 2010 and see all their pre-memorabilia, 2011 the same way. As soon as we can, we are working that out. They have not sent me the items. If they could sent me the items as they wish them to be, then they can be—I didn’t force them yet because I was told November 15th is our hope. Until we actually have it, I’m not going to ask them for it. You can ask them and say–Be ready.
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Kim: Another question they had was in regards to Co-Anon. Have you had any discussions with their Steering committee regarding that? Other than what’s in the manual?
John: Is this in regards to whether they are going to choose to have their registration handled by option A or B?
Kim: Right. I know there’s a lot of discussion about what they had to have, what’s required to be on the registration form. Of course, how they were referring to Denver. So, I’m a little blurred about Co-Anon.
Patty: Nobody from Co-Anon has complained about not being able to contact the people in 2010.
Who is the 2010 Co-Anon liaison? I think it goes to the Chair.
Richard S.: If isn’t one, there will be.
Patty: Us cocaine addicts don’t have to represent them.
Kim: I understand that. I get it. I worked on the guidelines with them.
Patty: So we don’t have to represent them, but one of them should invite Co-Anon to see if they want or have someone there. They’re not going to have someone local. I know they don’t have any locals Co-Anon existence.
Kim: I know someone in the region though.
Patty: Right. That would be glad to give them lots of emails. We have their request for space. I have that on a permanent document.
Kim: Right.
John: There’s some,–just keeping my ears around,–a little bit of change going on there now. Some transitions within the Co-Anon World Organization as well, it terms of their leadership, new officers, that kind of thing. Maybe everybody can… focus yet.
Kim: I don’t know that anyone from 2010 has contacted anyone from Co-Anon.
Patty: And no one from 2010 has asked me who to contact.
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Kim: Just a couple of things that stuck out in my mind from their meeting. They were voting on cost for meals and dinners and such and I referred them to: number one the guidelines and number two their budget. Just an FYI, they passed to do a $50 dinner and a $25 brunch. I don’t know if that’s in line with their budget. I thought I would mention that.
Patty: When you say that, do you mean is that $15 more than their cost.
Kim: That is the cost to the fellowship that they voted on as a general committee.
Patty. Right, so we don’t know is if they’re going to be able to get the meals for $35.
Kim: I know that the highest they have is $30 and the hotel will not go above that.
Patty: Right.
Kim: I actually have that. They have three meal choices. The most expensive being $30. They have $26, $27 and $30.
Patty: And it’s 18% additional, right?
Kim: Plus, 20% gratuity.
Patty: Yes, it’s close. It’s good.
Kim: There’s also discussion regarding their logo. Did you get copied on that? Did you see the logo?
Patty: No. The only thing we’ve seen, the WSOB has seen is the “Far From Using”. There we go, that’s great.
Tom: I heard about that.
Kim: So, my question to you and in the discussion, I’m sorry….
Patty: It’s “Farfrumusin”.
Kim: They currently use them, and I don’t know if you’ve seen it. A lot of discussion regarding the CA bumper stick on the back of this.
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Patty: If it is touching and elements of the art work.
Kim: Well, it’s not the CA logo. They are currently revamping it with Hope, Faith, and Courage CA logo versus this one. My question is, and I looked it up on the guidelines, their general committee obviously approved the logo and they’re getting ready for camera ready, which is what they sent the spending form in for, which I didn’t sign off on because I couldn’t see the logo they sent me. Does that have to be approved by WSOB—how does that work? Because it doesn’t really state that.
Patty: It doesn’t state that. The way we’ve gotten permission to approve it, and mostly to make sure our Trustees are doing it, is to make sure that there are no tradition violations. That it is in line with the Statement of Purpose. That page in the general service manual that says you didn’t break any other rules. We asked to see it to make sure it doesn’t break any of those rules. And at that time we often take the opportunity to share our opinion of the salability. Marketability.
John: 2009 was a good example of that. A couple of quarterly’s ago everybody has got real next to it. What turned out to be potentially awkward or unmarketable at first, it turned into a really unifying and fun thing.
Patty: And they proved on their pre-convention memorabilia that we were right. That it isn’t as marketable on a shirt. That’s our loop hole. Madame Trustee. That’s our loop hole that we need to check it for statement and purpose and tradition violations.
Kim: I’m presuming that at some point you’re going to seem happy on both—Hope Faith and Courage CA logo and one with just CA.
Patty: Can you call me when you get the other one?
Kim: It’s posted on the Yahoo group. Both of them are actually posted on the Yahoo group. Do you need anything more from me?
Patty: We need to talk at it.
Tom: It came out this week, didn’t they?
Kim: Yes.
Tom: I saw it.
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Kim: They were discussing back and forth. Of course they are concerned about what the World Service manual says, about the CA logo, and that more for discussion why they chose to do it both ways.
Patty: Yes, and we would step in as—we as in “We say our Trustees and you”, and then we discuss marketability. That may need an alternative art work.
Kim: Ok. Otherwise, do we have any other concerns Patty?
Patty: The Treasurer for the 2010 convention is not as communicative as we hoped. There is missing information that situation that happened in 2009 could easily and will happen I promise you in 2010 because it has already happened on one occasion. We had a problem with their rent check not being approved because they send in a request for the rent check and I had communicated to the Treasurer that she needed to do this kind of paperwork. She didn’t do it. When her Chairman complained, I said “You need to do the other paperwork. I’ll do it for you if you want me to sign on it verbally from their committee. We’re fine. I don’t care who does the paperwork. You have to approve me doing that.” So that’s what we did for her check request, waiting for them to fax us the final signed copy. We got the final signed copy and sent the check which was delayed in her own personal paperwork. She did not communicate to the Chair that she was holding the check, she did not deliver the check and therefore we again were dissed. It was World Services fault, me and Kim’s fault.
Trevor: Kim and I
Patty: Kim and I. Who, have nothing to do with writing the checks. We did our part. Taffy did her part. We all did our part, but the Chair was not communicated from them. When the communication came through there was no come back—were sorry guys—you know. Nobody ever says sorry to World Services when they make a mistake. I just wanted you guys to know. It’s not going to happen. I anticipate a few more of those problems, how I want to combat that is that we’re making a spreadsheet that says what we have and what we don’t have. We are going to put it up on the group and update it daily.
Hayward: Anything else Kim?
Kim: My correspondence with Quinn was in regards to better communication and having a little faith. They currently do not hold Steering committee meeting, they hold one meeting a month it’s a General committee meeting. Whatever they do on the Yahoo group we’re privy to, but whatever happens outside of that between anyone there is no “trail” of. I save everything.
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John: For our part in the office, I do want to say that there’s a probable easing of that initial maybe—the hurdles that we had to overcome together. There’s a lot hope that things are progressing nicely in the region. I think and that’s what I’m feeling and I…reporting also.
Kim: I looked to Patty and your communication with them is to encourage them as well as I will to possibly have a Steering committee meeting. Where that group of people, are not in their workplace or in their home place, or in the playground place and are separate from the rest to the world where they could go—oh yeah, I got that check, its right here. I think that might be prudence for them.
Patty: Yes. We will be aggressive with what we have and don’t have. I think that’s going to be our best plan of attack. Specifically with that Chairman, he’s amiable to me being like innocents.
John: Which is a real difference than a few months ago? Thank good
Kim: The only other concern I have is right now their fundraising chairs are not stepping up and participating. They are sort of at a standstill. I know that Quin’s certainly is capable and willing and will back that up himself. He could do it, but I am concerned about their pre-fundraising, at this point.
Richard L: Talking about fundraising, how did that freak show thing turn out?
Tom: I was thinking the same thing.
Kim: I’ve been questioned on more than one occasion about that. I think the first time Hayward asked me about it, I actually didn’t know much about it other than the attempt to plan it on the Yahoo group…nothing much else – date?
Patty: November 15th.
Kim: I had no clue, this weekend they are having an event.
Patty: It changed from Halloween to this weekend.
Kim: Ok. This weekend they are having a fish fry, chicken fry, a hypnotist, freak fry. They do a lot of family events and they get a good turnout for that. They have that tonight. That’s tonight. The other thing is I don’t know what the status is with bank accounts.
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Patty: The same situation that we sent, access to depositing and that was misplaced, so I sent an email with so everybody got a copy of the deposit slip for that account. The petty cash account however: we want to change how that’s working, how it’s getting signed. Until she actually participates with us a little bit more, we don’t want to open an account with her being the main signer.
Kim: My understanding is that there are funds, but I don’t know that they are getting the deposited.
Patty: She did deposit this week.
Hayward: Is there anything else Kim?
Kim: No.
Hayward: I noticed the four of you were saying lack of communication with the Conference Convention Chair.
Kim: The Conference Convention Committee Chair?
Hayward: Yes.
Kim: Yes, I have emailed him and also called him and let voice mails. There’s been no response. My understanding, that they do very little work during this first quarter. I’ve talked with Randy who apparently has good communication with them, for some reason. I understand I could probably get on FaceBook and chat with them all I want. I don’t want to do the business of CA on FaceBook.
Trevor: Kim, can also us me. I talk to him at least once a week or more.
Kim: Have him return my calls or have him return my emails.
Trevor: I will call and give him sh##.
Richard S.: Encouragement.
Kim: I need to be on the Yahoo group.
Patty: You haven’t got on that Yahoo group?
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Kim: No.
Patty: I think I can sign you on that.
Kim: I sent an email on October 8th and I left him a voicemail two weeks ago on Sunday.
Patty: Two weeks ago on Sunday he was in a family crisis situation a couple of weeks ago. I’m positive that was the problem then. Then he may have forgotten, because he did communicate with me just this week, which is unusual for me not to have a week of communication with him. I’m willing to bet you that he calls you Monday.
Kim: I’m looking forward to working with him.
Hayward: Taffy has a question.
Taffy: There’s a Conference Convention, as well?
Patty: Conference Convention Committee.
Taffy: So, the Convention has Conference?
Richard L: No
Patty: One of the standing committees at the Conference is the Convention Committee.
Taffy: Got it.
John: What you were hearing was…
Taffy: I heard it the other way around.
Hayward: Ok, are we through with 10? We got a long way to go, but were through with 10.
CAWS 11.
Randy: CAWS 11 they’re meeting—maybe as we speak at Burton’s house this afternoon after the area meeting. He’s not the Chair. Evan is the Chair. The Steering Committee is in place. They received about 35 to 40 resumes for the first 15 positions that they have open. They will do that, then re-sort and go back out to the fellowship for the next 15. They got about 7 or 8 hotels that have now responded as of Thursday when I saw Evan. A couple of those from Tucson. It
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looks right now that the best room rates for the size of the hotel that we actually need there is down to probably the Marriott Desert Ridge, I think they gave us a number around $120, which is actually a pretty good room night room rate for Arizona at that period of time. I think it was the Hyatt downtown, which would be kind of a different thing for Arizona. Obviously, anybody that was there in 2010, the whole resort thing, that’s probably more like the Desert Ridge would be, big large pool, more of a big spacious kind of an area, with a couple of golf courses. The Hyatt downtown has got a special feel for it as well. You are actually downtown Phoenix and literally right across the street from the ballpark. Right now it looks like Desert Ridge. My guess is Desert Ridge will probably play out. It’s just large enough that we wouldn’t have to worry about—the potential that Hyatt—with all things considered, we would have to have a second hotel—where the Desert Ridge is way large.
Patty: Way large.
Randy: Way large. They do have a Yahoo group up. I made a note to talk about pre-convention memorabilia, obviously as soon as we do have some kind of website portal for that kind of thing, the sooner the better. And obviously, somebody mentioned Co-Anon. They have a very strong Co-Anon going on in Arizona. I’m sure they will figure all of that out. Any questions?
Joy: Who’s going for Treasurer?
Randy: Actually, I think the Treasurer…
Patty: Gina is the Treasurer. They have chosen the Treasurer.
Randy: Jay Parker is the Co-Treasurer.
Hayward: Anymore question, comments about 11? Let’s move onto 12.
Nick: I haven’t seen the hotels; they have, because they only have area meetings every two months. They couldn’t come up with a December. Terry has made a point of that. He’s hoping January; I think there are three or four resumes going forward to the Chair. There are about 200 people coming out of the wood work. They think they can choose the speakers and everything. There’s lots of willing people. They still don’t get it that they can’t keep the money. They can keep theirs. I know Jackie and the Delegates have been gently telling him there’s nothing to do with their relationship. A bit confused on that. They are all very excited. There are three hotels. There’s one in Birmingham…, one in Brighton and one in London. I believe John and Patty and maybe Tom too, went to the Brighton and another one. I didn’t go. You may be able to get some more information.
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Patty: He had to work.
Nick: Yes, my work thing. I’m sure one of you could fill in there.
John: I just have to say; first of all, what an honor and privilege it was to get up to the UK and to spend time with the fellowship there. That’s just a whole larger report…it’s probably a news gram article, another communication throughout the year, but that aside, what Nicholas said about people coming out of the wood work in support of this convention is true. There’s a lot of enthusiasm and excitement from what I can… In fact, it was evident by the people that were willing to get out and drive, pick us up, get us to various locations, coordinate the times with the hotel staff of the two properties that we did get to see. I think Patty has some more practical thoughts on the properties more around the kind of business we could do that I think is well founded. Tom got to go to Brighton with us.
Tom: I was with Phil.
John: Right.
Tom: Visiting banks.
John: The folks that did actually come out and accompany us to the properties, so forth, took a lot of time out of their personal life and business day to make sure we got there physically onsite. What a remarkable thing where 9 times out of 10 we really don’t get to do that. Get that bird’s eye view. It was terrific.
Patty: It was critical that we actually participated with the committee members that were forming and expressing how grateful we are that the money is for World Service. The hotel choices are so completely different as compared to Arizona which is a choice I was given feedback on how the fellowship might perceive the value. The Birmingham one, although two hours from London, would afford us the possibility of having pre and post packages, that are actually commissionable for World Services. That’s a possibility, and it’s the cheapest all around location. It is where Narcotic Anonymous has their regional convention. The property is familiar with our type of event. The London location is way too expensive, but it was really nice to be there. There are no other locations in London that could seat 400 or 500 people for dinner. I want to keep that open as a possibility for us when I the committee come together and let them actually make their decisions. It’s one of those places where we want to give our feedback but don’t say “Patty said you shouldn’t go to the Royal Lancaster” because I would love to go to the Royal Lancaster. It’s 150 pounds a night, unfortunately.
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John: Which would be close.
Tom: 225.
Patty:…..If they would go with it. We would have to have—how to get into the Royal Lancaster.
I don’t need to go through all the negotiating. How we can do that property I gave to the two members that were there. If we had food events every day, we could actually go there and we could have a second property that was a less expensive property for the hotel rooms. They don’t care how many hotel rooms we sell to get their dinner there, they want to know how many dinners they are going to have there. To actually get that so it’s completely possible to do that with maybe only 150 room nights at that hotel plus the meals. I don’t need to negotiate with you guys. Birmingham, I love it because it’s cheap and it’s out there. I do love that. It’s also very far.
John: Shakespeare country.
Patty: It’s also where the Industrial Revolution began. There are tons of reasons to go there. The number one reason for me is—will the locals come there?—Yes. Couldn’t we do the same thing in Brighton—yes. We would have to have multiple hotels there; however the entire city of Brighton only has a total of 3000 rooms. Which is kind of cute.
John: You were shocked by that. I was there, I saw your face.
Patty: Because Brighton is actually one of those places where almost all of Americans would go to. London and Brighton are the two most places that most Americans would know, the salability for Brighton would be high and easy for us. We would also need to have additional hotels. We could not work it out with just that one hotel. The locals fill that hotel when they go down there for their local convention. The other shocking thing, not in the Birmingham one, but in the London and the Brighton in particular, only two people, there are no rooms for four people. Our fellowship is big on four people to a room. It’s not that the locals—who I surveyed—they still have newcomers sleeping on the floor in their rooms, same as here. Its way against their fire laws and stuff there as compared to here where it’s only kind of against the fire laws. They only have double beds. They don’t have king beds in any of these hotels.
John: There’s a cultural of European hospitality industry that’s evolved over literally over thousands of years. It just hasn’t been geared towards what we see over here in the states and what we are use to in the way of space, you know, conveniences and so forth. The esthetics of those hotels are beautiful. The most remarkable about the one in Brighton, was that the rooms manager, who was in charge of group business, had not seen or comprehended what each room type was. There are so many different types. They just have them crammed into nocks and
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crannies and around plumbing and stuff. This is your very old buildings. It’s a different cultural, a more of a boutique mentality all the way in European hospitality. Maybe we’ll have to get use the fellowship. It’s a good thing though.
Patty: The other thing from the UK, that excitement I was telling you about, in the conventions that we attended while there, where people that intend to come to 2009 and 2010 so that they could see what it’s like. Several of them—we intend to find if they are coming–so that we can get contributions from them, such as at the Liverpool convention their auctioneer was phenomenal in all his 90 days that he would be a possible auctioneer for 2009 convention. Besides, from 12 people he was able to get a huge sum of money. The way he spoke to it was very much like our goals are here. He knew his market, he also is probably—I did not ask him— but that’s probably how he makes his living. We want to take someone skill set and move it into our volunteer organization, which is a very important resource, in my opinion.
Hayward: The time is 2:56, we got till 3:45 allotted for this. What’s your name young lady?
Theresa: Theresa Neighbors, Vice Chair World Service Office Board
Hayward: Next item is NADCP Conference. We will need an update on that…
Patty: We are still communicating with the people from the last conference. We just sent out another letter to all of those that had indicated that they wanted books on their survey sheets. We sent out a notice saying would you like another one, and have yet to hear back. I only did that when I left for London. Preparations we had one conversation, at least.
Richard S: We met. We discussed participants for the attendance of it.
Patty: It’s Anaheim.
Richard S: Yes.
Patty: Anaheim, on the anniversary of Alcohol Anonymous. It starts June 10th.
Hayward: Any questions on that?
Patty: We aren’t putting anyone in sleeping beds; we are all going to come from LA.
Joy: June 10th where?
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Patty: Our intention to make sure that it’s—we are positive we can staff it from the people that are going to be in the greater Los Angeles area. I’m not going to officially be going, but I’m going to drive out there. We are not going to get me a hotel room. That’s what we are in the middle of discussing. How can we do it on the cheap? How do we get you out on one day and get Willie out on a different day and get the local guy out on another day. Get Tom out there and he might stay at the Marriott. They already told us where it is. It’s not on their web site. They have a strange thing.
Richard S: It’s still not posted.
Patty: I didn’t check this month because they don’t ever do it until—the end of November they may give us some information, but the vendor information won’t be available, but we will be able to get the hotel pretty soon. We’re just going to hold two rooms and then cancel one, if we can. I always hold rooms. I’m a room holder. We don’t think the cost is going to be all—it’s going to be the materials and what is the booth going to look like and what are we going to do. How are we going to communicate to the people before that are going to still be there? It’s going to be huge. Drug court was started here. They usually have 3000 attendee’s and there anticipating 6000. We’re anticipating that we’re going to need at least three people standing there. I really don’t think it’s really going to by—you know. I think we will be alright. We intend on having savings.
Trevor: How soon would the registration list be out of whose attending and from where? Do we know that?
Patty: From them?
Trevor: Yes.
Patty: We have last years, but they won’t know this year’s—they are also a volunteer organization.
Trevor: Ok. I know last year there were some Canadian folks there. I, once again, will be willing to come down on my own just to be able to be there for it and see what kind support in Canada. In Canada it’s very new. There are not a lot of Drug courts. There’s a few around, but I think it’s something I would like to help build up there.
Hayward: Ok, are we through? Good. Number three: CD rate and why only thirty days. That was Joy’s …
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Joy: Have you…Nothing yet?
Tom: When I made that motion, it was archaic. Their banking system was falling apart, there wasn’t $250,000 limits.
Joy: Right.
Tom: So, it’s an archaic motion. It’s really not intended to take this much time. It’s going to be— I—you know—I’m not going to—I don’t’—It’s going to be whatever rates—If it’s even—we want to do it. What I was thinking was maybe putting a CD there for the size of what we call our prudent reserve. It would show up on the balance sheet as CD and you could say there’s prudent reserve.
Joy: And you can’t touch it for ninety days?
Tom: We could do that.
John: We haven’t officially had that recommendation at the WSOB meeting yet?
Patty: We had the motion for the thirty days.
Tom: Right. I had a motion for thirty days CD. At the time we were making another motion to transfer the Even Year account into the Money Market account, which would have exceeded $100,000. Now I’m thinking we shouldn’t have $100,000 in that account, just right now. Next week they approve the $250,000 limit.
Patty: Your insurance for the banks are now increased from $100,000 to $250,000.
Trevor: If you have the money.
Patty: Quality problem? We look forward to you participating in our next Board meeting, at which time you can help us choose.
Joy: Alright, and that date is?
Patty: November 13th
Tom: As far so the rate Joy, I don’t know what the rate is.
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Joy: It depends on the bank.
Tom: And the day.
Patty: I speak that we should move that out of the way, because you guys have to do our transfers—this Board has to do our transfers. It would just be easier if you knew you weren’t going into the prudent reserve. The time when we have to go into the prudent reserve it should be really clear to you that were going into other money. Before that, all the rest is operations money, anyway. We are just going to be spending it. That’s the goal.
Joy: Well, I can do this. I can check with a couple banking institutions that I know and have a relationship with and find out what the ninety rates are right now.
Tom: Yeah.
Joy: No, I will just call.
Tom: Ok.
Joy: Quicker.
John: We really appreciate it, thanks.
Hayward: Are there any other questions, comments on this?
John: Thanks for coming to our last meeting.
Richard L: Sorry you had to leave early.
Hayward: Ok, we are moving to item number four, AA permission that was Kim.
Kim: This is in regards to the motion that happened at the Conference regarding “How it Works.”
Patty: How it works, and we have other things in there with them too. They have not responded to us, and I asked for an ET—well they responded to me each time I say “so are you done?” they go “No”. I wrote back and said “so can you tell me when you’re going to get done” and they say “It’s under consideration”. There’s no—by the way we intend to finish all our line
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items by thirty—do you know our World Board—you guys say you’ll answer someone in thirty days, they don’t have that rule.
Kim: Ok, so we didn’t have permission at the Conference and we don’t have it now.
Patty: No, and we even contacted the –as in ya’all—actually contacted the guy directly. We have two people on it at their World Service Office Board to tell us whether or not it’s actually approved the way that we wrote it. What they told us, is unofficially, it is approved. These no reason not to use it the way we want. What Hayward wanted me to get was in writing, give us permission. That takes longer. So unofficially, we have permission. They have said go ahead, but in writing they don’t produce that until it goes through their legal department and through their IP department, and I guess now it’s a third department. It’s definitely been with them for now four months.
Kim: So, we won’t take any action and changing that in our literature until we get that.
Patty: That’s what Hayward said. He said he wants it in writing before we get it.
Kim: I don’t care what Hayward is saying.
Patty: I mean, if he’s saying that we…
Kim: I think the Board of Trustees at the Conference we’re all agreement that we should have that before we go changing anything.
Patty: Right. The argument we are going to have with Cynthia on tomorrows call is why not. We are going to say we haven’t received information, and I’m not going to say we have an unofficial—we have the blessing from them and they do to all fellowships to agree that’s acceptable. What we are asking for is a step above than what they give. Now it has to go through. We are going to say that at the meeting tomorrow and then well know what that argument comes back on Cynthia. You guys did not make a tenth concept motion.
Kim: No we didn’t make a tenth concept motion nor did we motion to reconsider, because you said you had it.
Patty: We have an unofficial—and we still have unofficial. We have the unofficial but they didn’t send us a letter that says the attached is completely approved or here’s a copy of it. We don’t have that and they won’t give that until it goes through their process. Their acceptance of us using it is valid. According to their system we can do it as it was given to them. But if we
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want it in writing, we want official letter that is going to take more time. On the phone they tell me, go ahead.
Kim: At the Conference you said you had it.
Patty: We had an email that he told—Hayward had the same email too that says, yes you can go ahead. You can use all our stuff as long as it’s whatever. Hayward?
Patty: Hayward said that wasn’t good enough. Not that’s its only Hayward but what Hayward said to me was “this is what she sent me” and I said “yeah that is what I got” and he said “that’s not what we want, we want explicit approval.”
Hayward: I will forward to the Board what I have.
Patty: Which is the same as I have, which is saying you know…
Joy: For “cya” we actually physically want it in writing from the World AA World Service Board of Trustees, General Service Board, whichever.
Kim: So we can re-visit this at the next quarterly then?
Hayward: Yes.
Kim: For matter of record, we can say at the next quarterly meeting that we have it?
Break…….
Hayward: The next item of business is Farsi translation that’s Nicholas…
Nick: Thanks for that. I met the boys of Iran. Everybody met the boys of Iran, which was fantastic. In Iran and some of those countries they have a unique thing. Men and women aren’t allowed to meet in public and there’s a lot of religious—there’s lots of we take for granted that their not allowed to do. I remember our visit to NA, when we went with Carl. We asked them about the 6000 meetings of NA they have in Iran.
Patty: 200
Nick: They said thousands. Whatever. There are a few meetings there and there’s president. The guy said that we all need that one country in the world…to print literature and its Iran, because
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they can’t the funds back out to go back to World. The CA guys in Iran, they were there already. They ought to know whose going to print, going to do this, going to that. There’s a member in the UK called Mercede. She started to translate some of the pamphlets into Farsi already. They want to know who’s going to do it, which’s going to print. They want to run down the road, there’s about four of them. I just wondered if this—how the Dutch thing could work. Apparently they got some approved and it’s going to be printed or something….How that worked, how it
happened, how long it was. Did you imagine that we might be able to help Iran or we going to give them the same stuff and go you go you have to translate it yourself and we’ll try and help everything. Whether there would be cross boarder problems printing stuff and sending it back, or whatever, hopefully there might b…The…might say…because NA had to have permission from the….They saw God written down, there would be a major, major problem. It would be an insult.
There’s a lot of stuff going on. I just wanted to voice it here and wondered if you had any thoughts on it. I want to encourage them, but I don’t want to give them any false hopes. The good news, I think Russell is actually going to Iran.
Patty: The December holiday.
Nick: Yes. I’m thinking is that it would be lovely if we could send him with a little message but I don’t want to give anyone any false hopes on what we can or can’t do and if you had any thoughts. You talk to them quite a lot. I just wanted to put in front of the Board. I’m very excited. I met that guy five days sober and he’s a Persian plumber called…and he came to my home group. He said I found a love and a God I understand in this meeting and not in…He loves CA and he’s so excited and they went and started. They’ve had five meetings now. I just wondering if you had any thoughts on it, John or Patty? On the whole process and how we might help them with the printing and translation, have you had any views at all on it? It’s unique; I’ve never come across this yet.
John: Just by way of introduction of the whole subject, first of all this to me is…as one of those really quality problems for our fellowship. It’s an amazing opportunity to the subject of hope or false hope. I think there is every reason to be hopeful because we’ve seen evidence of other 12 step societies functioning. What level that means, I don’t have enough experience to know. For me, it was all about the face to face and the miracle that it could happen, manifesting itself in a very real way with those individuals. As far as how we can help, as far as our knowledge of how the Farsi translations will read, what impact the government or other regulatory agency in Iran may have, I really do not have any indication or idea at this point. There may be others who have looked into this…What I can tell you is, every reason to be hopeful. I think your right about that initial enthusiasm, wanting to run down the road with it. Who could blame them? I do find myself, personally, at a little bit of a lose as to how to effectively guide them so that we don’t
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undermine or dynamite any valuable effort or head way that could be made with respect to government, which is largely tied into faith or religion in that nation in particularly. Uses of the word “God” or “The Force” or “Higher Power” I don’t know what impact if any that has. The mere fact men and women—certainly cannot be recognized at some level I use the quote because that’s apparently the rule of law. Meeting together, what a tremendous challenge. But you know what we overcome these things historical since the very very beginning s of 12 step societies. Again, I have every reason to be hopeful, unfortunately I think it’s a learn as we go kind of thing. The practical matter of publishing and so forth, maybe you have some thoughts Patty that I haven’t go to yet. I don’t really have anything at this meeting to report in that regard. I do know that Mercede’s involvement is invaluable. There has been some concern about the liberal translation, its meaning. I find myself again in a situation being clear on how to be most helpful in that regard, because there is an interruptive thing that occurs, not only around the faith issue but just around linguistics that causes the matter of translation to be sensitive to a lot of people for lots of different reasons. I think Mercede has made a tremendous effort to more us forward. I hope that much of that work is valuable to the group from Iran and they can leverage it and use it in a matter at which it was provided. I think at this point that it’s just readings mostly, it’s not the pamphlets. Reading formats, if I’m not mistaken. There’s that. They have been directed at some level or excuse me, it’s been suggestion that much of the Farsi Big Book translation could be helpful in choosing or selecting words that are most appropriate going forward or…That’s about as much as I can give you honestly, everything else for me is just guess work or just conjecture, but I can assure you the office stands at the ready and I’m tremendously excited about the direct communication we have with those members.
Nick: Thanks John. Anything Patty, Hayward?
Hayward: The literature translation policy and also the local literature translation policy that the sub-committee of the WSOB drafted come up and approve that the WSBT, I think that would be helpful in the process of it. I think that’s the same process that we worked with Mercede
Patty: Yes, Mercede, whoever she is, our Board was confused because of the way that she wrote it to one of our other—I don’t know if it’s office manager or a previous office manager—it appeared like a professional entity wanted to translate our information. I assured the Board that it’s Mercede. She was directed and given copies of the translation procedure and the—she didn’t get the policy cause that’s about us—but she got the local procedure, which is that what we want from her is their translation and the approximation of what that says in English, so that the WSOB could make a—what we’re asking though is “here’s what we got, we send it to you, now send it back to us in Farsi and in English” One-hundred-sixty-four pages of the Big Book of Alcohol Anonymous is only 153 pages in Farsi. There’s a little obvious left out. There’s a little change on how that works. We want to know what they are saying in English. That’s what we
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wanted her to give us. What is your literal translation in English to what you wrote in Farsi? That’s what we asked her to provide us. She’s working on that. The men that we met were given the possible idea that we could work out a royalty agreement should they get an area, because they have to print the chips there. They can’t buy the chips from us and us ship them to them. I can’t print them in Farsi and send them there.
Nick: That’s not going to happen.
Tom: They can’t send us money either.
Patty: And they can’t send us money. How we are going to make that as a WSOB, it will be God’s work. Basically we told them go find out how much to get chips and let us know, and Russell is in-charge basically. He’s my liaison to them. He sponsors one of them, two of them. I feel like we have some connection to getting information to them and back to us, so we can find out if there is any possibility—basically we are going to say is “This is how you’re going to print it, ok?” and the WSOB is going to say “Is that the best we can do?”. There’s no money—we can’t take money from them. Remember that Iran is split. Farsi is monitored and controlled. Persians were the people that were displaced when the Shaw was removed. There’s a political problem with the people that are getting sober in Iran not being a controlling party in our fellowship. Then there may be a second group of Iranians that get clean and sober through Cocaine Anonymous that won’t be speaking Farsi, just for some awareness on that. That would be a different agreement and they could actually probably print it.
What John started say so we can all remember, when Bill W. went back home to New York it was against the law for known alcoholics to gather. It was against the law and he overcame that in 1942 approximately before they could legally meet. So, Iran is not having a problem that was not overcome by other 12 step people.
Hayward: Did we send them a starter kit? Oh, we can’t send it.
Patty: They got lots of stuff.
Tom: The problem with money is receiving contributions in a charitable organization. There are just restrictions and we have to address it.
Patty: We would then be holding terrorist funds.
Tom: Perceived.
Patty: Yes.
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Hayward: Anymore questions to Nick or comment? Theresa?
John B: I think it is important to recognize the work of the members in the UK right now. It’s so valuable in communicating with the Iranian group and helping this group to come along. In large in part to the UK area members, and we are so grateful for that too.
Nick: I’ll just continue to encourage Mercede and Russell to know what’s going on gently. I’m not going to send an official email or anything.
John B: I love your idea of they want to race down the road and a—let me give you another example—I met a man from Lebanon who was in a treatment center who was absolute sure that when he got out of treatment that he was going to start a Cocaine Anonymous in Lebanon. I love that. I think that’s a fantastic ideal. I urged him at that moment, not matter what I felt about it personally, to take care of himself first and keep his recovery forefront of his activities and his thought and that the rest would probably emerge and come later. I think in some small way, that’s what this small pledge rant group should do as well. Let the miracle continue to manifest and come forward. It’s come so far already, but I don’t think we have to push it. In the meantime we have these wonderful mechanisms. It’s funny; there may be some key chains that make their way to Iran. Who knows? We had a marvelous opportunity by way of the UK fellowship to make that miracle happen. I think that we find our way. We don’t have to necessarily force it, which is what I’m prone to do sometimes. Urge them that pacing, that love, and keeping their sobriety first will ultimately serve this endeavor.
Nick: Thank you for that.
Hayward: Do you have to send the local translation policy to them in hardcopy? You can’t send them an email?
Patty: Mercede has it.
Nick: I think that their on it. I saw John’s email, it’s beautiful. You’ve got to be very careful, their a bit like China, they monitor everything… was very forward about it. I said you must not say this to me. What? You must not. It puts people to risk and stuff. I just want to let you know it’s really tough sometimes and they come to us you know. They were in tears when I went because I promised to come the night before I got on the plane to America. I said I was coming to see you. One of the guys going home said I don’t know when I will be able to come to another CA meeting and he started crying. They are really moved. They are so excited to meet me. That’s why the enthusiasm was well and the frustrations—we can only do so much with those
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people, because there are laws bigger than us. We love Cocaine Anonymous recovering addicts. Their laws are their laws and they do chop people’s heads off and they do shot people. That’s the way it goes.
Randy: Put it down as public controversy.
Nick: Thanks for the input anyway.
Hayward: Ok we’ll move on to item number 6. Why doesn’t the TAL have a budget? That would be Richard.
Patty: We have to refer that to the Finance committee. We are not in control of the budget. We just help enforce them and to make them work. The Conference Finance committee is unaware of your job description and your needs.
Hayward: So is that a referral or what?
Patty: Just when you turn in your budgets next year. Turn it in with that number.
Joy: I want to know why it disappeared. They use to be two TAL budgets in the budget.
Patty: Because the document that the Finance committee was given from this committee did not indicate anything other than the four meetings.
Joy: Ok
Hayward: Do I hear a referral?
Tom: It doesn’t really need to be a referral. When you submit the budget include the budget for the TAL. Trustees submit their budgets to the Finance committee so the Finance committee can incorporate them in the overall budget, just like every other committee does.
Joy: Can we submit a change for the 09-10 budgets?
Patty: We usually change it.
Hayward: Any other comments, questions?
John B: Yes I have one. I’ve been around long enough to be plain about this. Didn’t anybody ask at Finance…?
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Tom: No it hasn’t been on there since I’ve been here.
John B: It just doesn’t come up anymore?
Tom: Bobbie was using other…she was…
John: I understand.
Patty: Bobbie called and said get me a ticket.
Richard S: When I looked at the job description, my requirements of what I needed to do, that was something that I needed to address.
John B: And I understand intellectually that we had cost consideration concerns—we needed things to be a certain way. Ok, fine. I just don’t want…
Tom: I think it had to do with the fact that there was open Trustee positions and those budgets were being used for the TAL.
Richard S: That would make sense.
Hayward: Move on to number 7, financial statement questions and that’s Joy.
Patty: What page are you on?
Joy: 1-5.
Patty: You are on the PL verses Budget?
John B: Joy, if you permit me to bring this out in your mind, for those who are aware—I just learned this myself—there are a number of you that do receive bank statements—electronically I believe—is that correct?
Joy: Yes.
John B: Tom sees them, Patty sees them, and obviously Taffy sees them. Joy you are now on that distribution. Hayward, are you on that distribution as well?
Joy: So is Willie
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John B: I am not—interestingly—I never have been and probably a better person for it. For those who don’t know how that’s working currently—and I think there are members of our board that don’t understand—there is an email distribution of bank statements. Thanks.
Joy: I wasn’t even going to ask questions on the bank statements because I think that at the CAWSO Board Meeting—sort of put me in my place and I fixed it. I tore your P & L apart and I have quite a few questions.
Patty: Our
Joy: I tore our P & L apart—ok. I do know that at one point you all had—prior to me becoming a Trustee—had decided to move the budget line item under program services for bookkeeper down into administrative work where it belongs.
Patty: Right. That’s why we are putting the cost there, even though the budget wasn’t done.
Joy: I understand. If we can—maybe Tom.
Patty: We like to do line item move at the end of the year. Let everything fall and then do the budget line item moved at the end. That’s our current habit.
Tom: You would like to see it more accurate? I will bring that up with Oliver in our next meeting with him.
Joy: And I have questions on that too. But that’s ok we will get to that. Ok, the utilities—are you breaking that up between program services and administrative? It says in the first quarter you put the whole entire utilities under program services and nothing under administration.
Patty: Taffy that’s you.
Taffy: That’s where it was put. I’ll have to follow through on that. Is that July or the entire…
Joy: It’s July through September All of entire quarter, yes.
Tom: I’m not even sure we have a budget line item for utilizes.
Joy: Yes you do.
Tom: Under admin?
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Joy: Yes. Under admin is $240 and under program services its $450.
Tom: You know that the budget is just an estimate?
Joy: I know it is.
Tom: There’s nothing exact.
Joy: I don’t think all of your utilities are program services.
Tom: We can talk about this later. The truth is that it’s all program services.
Joy: Then get rid of you utilities under admin.
Tom: It’s a function of the IRS, Joy. It has nothing to do with reality.
Taffy: Are you talking about the actual or are you talking about where the budget lines are?
Joy: I am going through the budget vs. the actual. I’m scrutinizing the budget line item vs. what you actually spent and where there at and why they are there.
Taffy: It that case with the utilities, are you talking about where the actual landed?
Joy: Yes, and they landed under program services and Tom set me in my place that they should be entirely under program services.
Patty: And the budget should move.
Joy: And the budget should move, which I’m fine with. I’m totally ok with it. We can leave that until the end of the year.
Tom: Bring your questions up and we’ll—exactly.
Joy: And I’m going to direct these to you now because I have questions on this. I don’t not know why there are negative numbers under expenses, which means that money was given back?
Patty: Yes.
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Joy: I understand why under the WSBT meeting 2 there’s money…
Patty: Let’s go to your negative numbers, like the delegate registration right? That’s the main place that falls. I know you’re talking, Taffy. She’s new.
Joy: I’m under…
Tom: WSBT meeting 2.
Joy: 7720 is where I’m at right now.
Tom: I bet that is an enter period adjustment. We’ll have to take a look at it.
Joy: So my question is—why do we have expenses in meeting 3 and 4 when we haven’t had meetings 3 and 4. And it comes to my question of—did we close the books last year to soon?
Tom: 71984 was last year. The one on meeting 4? Yes.
Joy: So we closed the books…
Tom: We didn’t close the books to soon, we closed them when we did and some bills got coded and because the materiality of them—in order to get the books done and be able to present them at Conference sometimes we just do that.
Joy: So we are going to be over budget?
Tom: We aren’t perfect. Yes.
Joy: The Trustees are going to be over budget because we have a miss coding.
Patty: No, you won’t be, because you guys traditional give us the bills that late.
Joy: Ok
John B: And there will be a lapse…
Joy: I’m a new Trustee and I have questions.
John B: It’s like the Trustees inherent the expenses of the former.
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Joy: That I know.
Tom: Joy that’s a good point.
Patty: We love that point.
Tom: The Trustees have been over budget and under budget but lightening never strikes. These are just control tools as well, right?
Joy: No it’s the internal control and making the postings correctly.
Tom: The marching orders given by the Conference. The budget is not a perfect document.
Joy: I know, but if we go over budget the Conference—at least the ones that actually look at the stuff besides you and me.
Tom: They might ask us question and we’ll have to say Bruce got his invoices in too late and they got approved and they got paid. We should have gone back and restated the financial statements, which would have required us to pay the accountants another $2500 to reissue statements. In the immateriality of it, which we just kind of keep marching.
Joy: We might have to do a referral to change the fiscal year?
Tom: That’s a possibility, yes. That won’t eliminate the problem. There are sometimes we get these little stragglers in.
Joy: Ok. I still have questions why we have negative expenses. We just shouldn’t.
Taffy: That’s a coding issue that gets cleaned up year end. That’s the Motus apparatus and that can shift. My preference is that not necessarily be the case. There’s room for improvement in the coding. I’m with you on that.
Tom: Thanks for your observations Joy.
Joy: I understand under Conference committee Tom, the negative numbers. I knew what those were. I knew that was income and that you were offsetting the expenses on that. I totally get that and I would have shared that with the rest them but that was not even a question on my list.
Tom: I don’t know what the 53103 is.
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Patty: We do.
Hayward: John has a question or comment.
John: I love the word in immateriality. One thing I do really appreciate and value is that we are having this discussion openly. I hope none of the responses diminish and of your concerns. I think in a lot of ways these are healthy and good questions to ask. There’s a lot of explanation and possibly it’s conversations like this that is going to move us forward in improving our accounting practices. I hope that’s a goal for us.
Joy: I have request. Can the WSBT get a written job description of Oliver, of what his new jobs going to be with Yvette taking some of that away from him?
Patty: All the job descriptions need to be turned in.
Hayward: Hold on. We are addressing something that is under item 8…
Joy: Oliver is actually under financial statements since he actually does them.
Hayward: But you asked for all of them.
Joy: No, I just asked for Oliver’s’.
Patty: Oliver.
Taffy: The second part of your question that Yvette is now taking over some of his responsibilities, that’s not accurate. That part is not accurate.
Joy: Yvette’s not…
Taffy: No. Yvette is doing what Rocko did—all of his responsibilities. There was some talk about how this would split up, how this would break down what would be the most efficient use of our staff—that Oliver would take input from Rocko. That was based on just a conversation. I talked to Oliver about that, we sat and talked to him about that as a potentiality which did not occur. But your question about Oliver’s…yeah.
Joy: Thank you.
Taffy: That’s a good one.
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Joy: I’m done with my financial statement questions. There will be more to come, I promise you.
Hayward: Hold on, I think Theresa has something.
Theresa: Is there any reason that we couldn’t have a separate line item that says “carryover” so that it’s not confusing.
Joy: No
Patty: Yes.
Joy: We could.
Patty: Yes, that’s how we have it for the Conventions and yes we could have it like that, but then we would have to subtract it out of their current year budget—just like my worry about the Trustee for the Conventions moving their money line. While I’m still talking—$ 531 subtraction is a reimbursement of an expense that was done for one of the Trustees. So they came back.
Kim: That would be me.
Patty: Yeah.
Joy: I know. I didn’t…
Patty: So her refund has to show up under your money and we gave it to this meeting but this is happening right now.
Joy: Got it and also the hotel negative number she’s got under her…
Patty: She had a refund. She sent us back money.
Joy: I know. I see that. Very good.
Hayward: Any other comments on this? No, we’ll move on and that will be number 8—Office Restructure Project and that will be Willie.
Willie: The job description for Susan and also Yvette…different roles. Will there be a financial impact above 5 % that the WSBT should be concerned with.
Patty: Of the overall, no.
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Willie: Even with the additional salaries?
Patty: First what you were asking us is how the restructure works. According to the structure there won’t be overall change, we discussed that. There will be no overall change of what the plan was from the Conference. So that won’t be different. Historically, when it’s a job change it’s not an increase in salary, it’s a job change.
John B: This is what we were talking about on the phone the other day.
Patty: What I mean is that when I move somebody from shipping into customer service—she got an increase in price to the range that was for that job—and it was not discussed with the WSOB or WSBT. That’s unclear on how our policy statement is. Our policy statement is if there is an increase more than 5 % for us it comes to the WSBT, if it’s for our staff it goes to the WSOB. And there might be one more if it more than that for the whole group. Our staff is now under— the way it was restated and I have it on our Yahoo group and if someone wants to pull it up for us to find out what it was…
Taffy: It’s right here. I have it copies of it for everybody.
Patty: That says if it’s our staff it’s our job until it’s the WSOB’s job. If you’re asking power, the only people that goes over 5% here is us. If that’s what you mean. The WSBT has to approve any 5% increase that’s for Taffy or myself. WSOB has to approve anything that’s for any staff members. I don’t know which hour you’re ask me Willie.
John: Thank you Patty and thanks for bringing the copies of the policy. I think the conversation I appreciate because I think it’s good that both boards goes towards understanding what’s evolving—I don’t know, in your other meetings today if you had a chance to all come up to speed with what the structure looks like, because I don’t want to waste a lot of time. Was that pretty well articulated and covered.
Taffy: It wasn’t well articulated. I brought extra copies of the duties breakdown.
Patty: Mine was.
Taffy: Mine wasn’t.
John: Does the WSBT at this point feel that understand at least structurally what’s happening? It’s our opportunity right now, face to face, to just talk about it and make sure we are good
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moving forward this way. We have made a switch and we were sorry to see Rocko have to leave us—on the other hand the work flow and the way that we were being impacted by that work flow just required a different solution. In discussing that with both Patty and Taffy we made some adjustments. Also, I’m really encouraged with idea that we’ll be able to develop the tremendous resource with have in Susan. This is going to have to take a look at what we have to spend in the area in developing our employees. We reallocate new work into other positions that sort of re-craft them. It’s going to take a refiguring of this. I think that at the end of the day we probably, on paper, looks like we’re spending a little more than we had planned. I think that’s the conversation that I hear coming out of the question that Willie raised. Moving forward from here what I want to make sure what I think I would like to achieve as a Board to Board is that we are in agreement that this is well worth the investment that we’re making in it. Any particular questions there are about salaries, and wages, and policies get addressed right here so that going forward for the future—in fact in all matters between these two Boards this year—my goal would be to be complete transparency, no perception of moving an shaking without checking in with each other and touching base which is largely Willie’s responsibility making sure that communication happens. We have a real opportunity now to get a clear understand of what we are doing over at the office by illuminating the part-time, re-crafting a full-time customer services/bookkeeping position, and then moving Susan into—I love the way you described this the other day at our Board meeting, Patty—Susan was taking some of things she had previously done and moving over and the rest of her job could be described as your job description assistant in front of it—which is a lot if you read the job description at the DRPD. We already have evidence that Susan has plenty of work to do on the agenda and you guys probably talked about that earlier today. I just want to be clear, I think this conversation to me means let’s all make sure that we’re current, we understand what it is we’re doing over there, what we’re spending on it, and how we are going to afford that going forward.
Joy: Number 4, it says policy of WSBT that effective immediately all increases and pay to non director staff members under 5% will be at the discretion of the Directors of Operation in consultation with the WSOB Chair and Treasurer to ensure that salaries budget is not exceeded, so if it is exceeded by $12000, then what happens. Then does it come to us, because that is an increase in the budget that–That’s what I think our question is. It went above $12000 of what the budget was and it was after the fact it came to us.
John: First of all $12000 figurative number or is that an honest number.
Joy: It’s the annual honest to God number.
Patty: It isn’t the number for this current year—that is the plan.
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Joy: You said for 08-09—I asked you for the annual…
Patty: Total number was, but we were ready in November so it’s not going to effect this year that same way. We’re ending in November. It didn’t start until November 3rd. I don’t know the actual fiscal, that’s why I was saying that we need to go back and look at what savings, if there were any, in salary and wages to compare. For the current year, the maximum that I anticipate will be like three.
Joy: Ok, and then we already have a budget for 09-10.
Patty: Which is within.
John: It anticipated some increase in salary and wages no matter what the structure supplied.
Joy: So what is 09-10? Do we know?
John: I come to the meeting today with a loose estimate in my head between 5, 6 thousand dollars over the mark. That’s me sitting back figuring, personally and talking with Patty, just going back and looking at where we thought we might have in savings and miscalculated due to some inexperience on my part, didn’t have anywhere with all the stepping—whoa, whoa, slow down. On the other hand I think we have some reasonable substantiation for the need for each of these positions. I hope that we can achieve at this meeting is to uncover, discover, where are we deficient in investigating what the cost impact is going to be, but hopefully walk out of this meeting saying yes this is a good and healthy choice for our organization going forward. I’m ready to take ownership for my part in terms of not stepping in sooner and double checking the numbers, which I believe most of our Board—I won’t speak for everybody—thought there would be a negligible impact on the basis of a cost savings that we miscalculated. That cost savings was in the area of benefits. I want to be clear on this, I think there was a lack of education on my part—maybe not the other Board members, but my part—that didn’t go far enough in my investigation to say maybe we don’t have the savings we think we have. Nevertheless: we’re here now, and to this question that has been appropriately raised, do we want to move forward? I think the answer hopefully is yes, but it’s not its too late for the wheels to come off and re-tool and regroup.
I hope we can figure that out here.
Joy: You answered my question and would like to thank you for that.
Willie: That was the question I had.
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Kim: There’s an understanding of what the restructuring is and Joy was trying to get to the point of what that financial impact is, so thank you for answering that question. Another question I have is regarding the job description, in particular, Patty’s position, to the short scope of Conference and Convention, but now apparently that’s changed, is that correct?
John B: With respect to Patty’s job description?
Kim: Her job description no longer includes working with the Conference, or Conference Committee.
John B: If it’s in the existing job description we haven’t made any—there’s been no movement to alter or change it at this point. I don’t think I’m understanding, then the question.
Patty: The job description doesn’t say which committees and fundraising things I’m going to participate on; it just says I’m going to be working with volunteer committees, etc. As such, in that discussion—John you do know what I mean—is that we discussed that Director of Operation would be better suited for the Conference Committee.
John B: In terms of just who to delegate the work to?
Patty: Yes.
John B There has been very specific discussions about the outreach efforts and the ability to fundraise and activities the currently foster in that regard being under the scope DRPD. Development of groups and areas and regions and fundraising activities related to that new initiative like the Trustee events that Patty was talking about. Things like the book, things that are revenue generating, things that generate unity, any communication to the outside world that we have. Either the Drugs Courts or other professional organizations, they must be under DRPD or as conference or business meeting and as very practical matter for the health and well being of the future Trustee in this fellowship is more of an administrative—with all due respect with being a four year member of the Conference Committee—I can say with a great deal of confidence that it’s our business meeting and fairly well needs to support operations to produce the printed materials to generate the mailings, to generate the electronic files that are necessary, and the archival aspect of the Conference. That maybe better served under operations. That conversation has taken place.
Kim: So I am assuming for all of that, shifting to Taffy…
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Taffy: And that happened at this Conference. It’s not about going forward. This Conference was under the domain of Director of Operations, obviously with training, because this was my first Conference.
Kim: At the previous Conference, or maybe it was two Conferences ago, the Conference Committee put in place and redeveloped a position called Administrative Coordinator. It has never been clear who fills that position from the WSOB. My concern I bring forth to the current Conference Committee Chair is who will be taking that, I will direct this to you.
John B: That’s fine. I agree with you.
Kim: Who will be taking that on? That person needs to work the Conference Committee. There’s been a lack of participation in the Conference calls by anyone, Rocko or Taffy, due to different situations going on. We need commitments.
John B: I appreciate that and you can tell Brian for us, that we recognize that we need—yeah it didn’t work out real well. Rocko actual participated in these calls.
Taffy: He participated in a few calls as did I. I had a conversation with Brian and I told him that Sunday’s are never going to be great for me. There just not. That’s part of who I am. Sunday’s don’t work for me because I am doing all of my spiritual practice on Sundays.
Kim: Right. I think Taffy would be the ideal person because she has that hands on experience on the Conference and you get a Conference Committee. Maybe working with a Trustee to that committee would also help.
John B: Two things are clear, it hasn’t worked very well up until now despite our best efforts in trying to name this person or that person, it hasn’t worked real great and going forward we need a better solution. What I think is important going forward is that we have a sense that it’s best served on the administrative side, on the operation side, and that may in fact at the end of the day be Taffy. That decision is really going to be recommended I think at a WSOB level from Taffy directly to us to say how she wants to allocate those tasks, those duties, and responsibilities. I don’t know that the impact of having a full-time support staffs with Yvette will impact her decision in moving forward. I don’t know. But tell him that we heard him.
Kim: Maybe we need some help with that. I don’t know
Taffy: Maybe we do. Brain and I obviously need better communication on that too.
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John B: I’m just saying we’re open to that but we don’t know what the impact is yet for Yvette because we’re just getting her up to speed. I think in going forward right now the most immediate and direct person to communicate is Taffy. Recognizing Sundays aren’t good for Taffy. Maybe some understanding there and a decision….
Taffy: Or a different time on Sundays. Or whatever it is. Something needs to shift.
Hayward: Ok, has all that been answered? Randy had a comment.
Taffy: No, I really need to hand this out to—because this will be helpful. This is the duties breakdown for what Yvette is doing if anyone cares to see it. The beginning of the list is what the front desk did do that’s going over to DRPD. These are just my messy notes that I quickly xeroxed for you guys during lunch. I ran over to the office during lunch.
John: You guys are going to have to take this with a grain of salt, please. And recognize that we’ll get back to you with a firm description and our experience actually. By the next quarterly we should have a good feel at the very least how this is all flushing out.
Taffy: And a what?
Hayward: And a chart. Our chart. Randy…
Randy: Yeah, just a couple of quick things. Maybe I don’t read this right, but this still looks like a—the salaries budget even if it was minor, obviously the creation of a new position or moving stuff around, it still looks like it to me that we’re—the issue here that’s being addressed from one of the Trustees as an agenda item and even with the information that we had it became obviously that this number was bigger than what it was anticipated to be, which I think according to this that I read would still require approval. I’m getting the sense we’re sitting here asking for forgiveness not permission now that it’s being brought up. That would be my only concern.
John B: I can only speak for myself and tell you that I’m not asking for forgiveness as much as I saying here it is. And as recently as our last meeting the Treasurers reports to us reflected zero impact, a negligible impact, on the budget line item and there was information missing Randy at that moment that had been under unevaluated and now what we’ve come to you at this quarterly meeting saying is that we got a bit of a bug-a-boo. Going forward in our future health Board to Board we want everything to be above board. There are no secrets or jocking from anything. We have this amazing lesson the Chair of your Board sits on mine. Another member here sits on mine. Joy will come visit. It’s not as if these things were happening while the WSBT was blind folded. But I will sit here as the leader of that board and that responsibility for not having
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stepped in sooner to ask better questions. I’m a volunteer. I have a lot of experience around here, but I took a couple of thing that I read and heard at face value and I shouldn’t have. The lesson I’ve learned is it’s going to cost us as few hundred extra a month. It does put us over a bit. I can rationalize all day long and tell you the creation of a new position doesn’t require any request for funds. I can tell that taking Susan from an hourly position to a salary position giving her a new job description doesn’t require it either but the grey area for me was, even if we weren’t screwed up about the budget, if Susan was going to earn more money, there was this little grey area that exceeded 5% of her salary. You know what, I would just prefer that we all talk about it and have it out on the table. I wouldn’t characterize this as asking forgiveness…
Patty: Not on the minutes. That what you just said will be deleted from the minutes, I just wanted to make sure.
John B: Yeah, we can identify hot spots later as we go back and draft our minutes.
Randy: Ok, that’s fine.
John B: I wouldn’t characterize as asking forgiveness as much as I’d say hey this merry band of volunteer’s f**ked up little bit in underestimating some things, with the best intentions. But two that my goal moving forward for both boards is to really never have anybody sitting another room separate from me wondering what are they all thinking over there. In other words, in any combination of it, Joy, Theresa, and Kim, can have the same conversation as Randy and I and Taffy have in any place in the hotel and this is never any wondering or mystery of what the agenda was. The agenda here was simple and its conception and that was to reallocate the work load for a number of reasons I won’t get into on the tape. It just wasn’t working for us. I’m sorry that it had to come to this.
Randy: I miss took—I didn’t mean—I meant that the whole idea behind the approval is coming from a different direction than we wished it would have came from.
John B: Absolutely, and I share 100% your sentiment. I do think the other thing I said, and I do want this on the records, is that it’s not too late to turn it around. If both bodies here at this Board to Board decide that we want to do something different than we are doing, after we fully evaluate the health and well being of the organization going forward, then we can do that too.
Randy: I’ll be more than happy going on the record—I’m not interested in running the Worlds Service Office or that. I appreciate your efforts and time put into all of those decisions. The other question that I have is in the process of getting here and part of the reports that we heard this morning or earlier today we’ve got a salaried individual that I believe would probably carry the
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benefits of a full-time salaried individual that’s got a less than full-salary being sent to her on a weekly basis.
John: I was just going to say, are we talking about Patty?
Randy: Yes
John B: That’s alright. I think for the purpose of the minutes to going forward that we are always sensitive about employee issues, amounts of money, and also…
Patty: Can we go off the record, please.
Randy: I don’t mind going off the record for a moment.
John B: Can we pause for a moment.
Hayward: Ok we are back on the record with item number 9, recording secretary for both Boards. That was an item brought to us by John.
John B: I so sorry to maybe perhaps state the obvious—both Boards were attracted to the idea that we could use Yvette as our recording secretary prior to her actually getting hired by the organization and recently Yvette was prepared to come to our WSOB meeting—and I called her and said no I don’t that’s probably a good idea, it for me blurs the lines, you’ll be working for Patty, there’s no reason to be accountable to me or anybody else on the Board with respect to— you know producing a reward product. Not to mention paying somebody separately from their payroll to do more work for CA. It’s just got little to blurry for me. That being said though, I thought some more about it because Willie was kind enough to call me and I appreciate it on your behalf and mentioned that you also had an arrangement with Yvette to handle recording of minutes. I thought about it a little bit and I send my thoughts back to you by email, so hopefully you’ll have a chance to share that. I just want to caution it for the reasons and some more than we chose not to use her. I think there’s every reason for the WSBT to consider an alternative plan. That’s really all I wanted to put out there. I think Yvette’s terrific, but now she’s employed by us. As you can tell by the conversation that just ensued off the record it’s a little weird to have an employee listening to our minutes. Thank you.
Hayward: Ok, comments?
Patty: I just want to make sure that I want you—I know I saw some head shaking—but often when we see the head shaking we leave the room there were things left that—it’s not ok with me
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to have our employees listening to your minutes. Its ok they see the edited ones, like every member in the whole world, it’s just not ok with me that a staff member would have that exposure at all. I’m zero tolerance on that for many reasons—sexual harassment being the number one reason.
Hayward: We will revisit that—it’s already brought up—and we will revisit that during our quarterly meeting. Next item is P.O. Box for CAWSO.
John B: I brought this one as well. There’s been some concern about the P.O. Box expiring on our watch and going by the way side. Taffy’s got a timeline and prepared to discuss what occurred and how it occurred. Instead of reliving we lost a P.O. Box what we want to do at this Board to Board meeting is discuss the future, well being and functioning of the organization, how are we best going to discharge the program services, get the checks in, get the books out, whatever happens through that P.O. Box address, how significant is it that we acquire a new one vs. the strategies we currently have of attempting to regain the old one and where do we go from here. This again in the spirit of—let’s not have any elephants in the living room between either Board—let’s just get the answers. Are there any questions first of all about the fact that the P.O. Box that we currently have is not ours anymore? Other than how did it happen which we have a timeline on. We don’t have our old P.O. Box.
Taffy: The word that you used before about forgiveness—I mean I do have to ask for it—I don’t have a question but I do have the timeline. I don’t know if any of you even knew that it had occurred. You didn’t know.
John: The reason I decided to go ahead and get it on the agenda here is because we published that address in several of our very various publications, the web sites, our books, and our literature for example. It’s important that we have a point of contact. Do you want to talk about the solution you have in place, currently?
Taffy: Yes. What we have in place currently is that everything that goes to the P.O. Box is being rerouted to our physical address on Overland.
John: In less than a perfect way, we’re leveraging the forwarding mechanism of the US Postal Service, like the change of address function of the US Postal Service, to have mail sent down to the Overland address. In the meantime…
Taffy: In the meantime that is not a long term solution obviously, that can only go for twelve months. The most recent up-to-date is that I sent a letter and a certified letter to the post office owners, it was returned. They did not get it, they did not open it. Another letter has been sent.
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They have contacted the new owners; I did find that out since our last meeting. They are unwilling to give us the box. There is an escalation to—it’s not the postal office master general but it’s what’s called a CSO, whose over this whole region and he is to get back to me. The last time I talked the manager there—Barbara—was on Friday. He didn’t give me a call by the end of the on Friday; I will give him a call on Monday. Basically, they did contact the new box owner, and they are unwilling. They only have the box bought through March, which doesn’t mean they won’t purchase it again. We wouldn’t have an opportunity to slip in there.
John B: Thank you by the way Taffy for the highlight. There are a number of reasons why it didn’t work. Mainly, it’s important to get to what the solution is that’s best for are printed materials, for our fellowship, and how we’re going to continue. I guarantee you whenever I moved I never got my forwarded mail 100% of the time. To me it doesn’t seem like a viable solution. I’ve asked myself through this after so many years of having this box why would this happen now. What’s the spiritual reason here that this is happening? Where’s God in all this? Mainly, what I’ve come to you on this, should we just get a new post office box at this point or should we stay on the course and try to regain the old one or both?
Willie: It seems like there are some reluctance to give up that old box. Why don’t we just get a new box and move forward with the mechanism on how to get that box number labeled in the book that it’s print in.
Joy: I agree. Get a new box. Let’s move forward. Because who knows—those people—why wait until March.
Taffy: I just going to interject before someone else comments. Because this box number is printed in old material and old books…
Patty: In 67,000 books.
Taffy: Into eternity, that’s never going to go away. We are going to always have to do something about getting things forwarded. I just wanted to put that on the table as your voting.
Hayward: So we have a new P.O. Box and we have a chance to get the old one back in March.
Taffy: Yes. If we decide today we get a new P.O. Box and that will be true.
Hayward: So all the mail is coming to the office?
Taffy: All the mail today is coming to the office.
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Nick: The UK area experience screwed up exactly like this, exactly. I got a mobile, I had fourteen years ago as contact for a CA meeting and that’s just in print and it went to prisons and it went here and it went there and you can’t get them back, you can’t the 67,000—you can’t. But we can put on our web site—this is the brand new number. We can do the forwarding and it does work. And some are going to fall through, that’s the way it is. Some people are going to write P.O. Boxes and some people are going to CA.Org. There’s lots of ways to communicating with—I don’t think we should put too much stress the loss of that. We lost it; it isn’t coming back, maybe. The new thing is to bring solution, be positive, publicize it but still try to hold on to the one…Better to have two then decide and not have on. But some are going fall through that’s the end of it. We don’t know if we are going to get it or not, we have to think of the next ten years. When we reprint the book, because we will reprint at some point, do we print in the new one, the old one, both, or you may try both of these. Whatever. Once it’s in print, it’s in print. Know where to find is as good as the person that coordinates the way it’s found. You might be right Tuesday and be wrong on Wednesday. The moment the CA UK went to…It’s insane. It’s very difficult. I don’t think we should put that much importance—this is the World Service—of course it’s important. Most people are like—people send me fax numbers—what’s that about? Writing checks. I don’t write checks anymore. It’s a European thing. People are moving on. It’s done, it’s done 67,000 are gone. I think we need to get a new one. Bang, put it on the web site, text things. People in the UK and Europe don’t usually go to meetings and announce stuff. They text everyone. They email everyone. This post office thing is old fashion. Paper is old fashion. It will be gone; hopefully in the next…we don’t have enough trees. We should join in with the mobile stuff, which is put it up on CA.Org—if you cannot find this then please try this, please text here. Paper stuff is really old fashion and putting stuff in the post is very old fashion. Writing checks, where I come from—my bank said we’ll give you a discount if you don’t write anymore checks, you’ve only written one check in four years. We don’t write checks.
Richard: While were waiting for—is May or March?
Patty: March
Richard: Waiting for March, why are we interested in another P.O. Box and not utilizing the office address?
Taffy: Right now we are utilizing the office address but Patty can answer that about putting the address in the books. She doesn’t want to do that.
Patty: I stand for a permanent address. Alcoholics Anonymous says use their P.O. Box for the whole eight-hundred million years because there’s a possibility their going to move. I’m positive—our long term planning discussion—we’re going to move. We’re not going to stay in
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that building, we need a permanent address. A new P.O. Box is at least a solution that works towards that possibility. A P.O. Box—where’s it going to be, how are we going to long term? At our board meeting, I thought we left for Taffy to determine—because we didn’t want to micro manage what would be best for her. I input is, we need a permanent address not—unless we’re buying that building that were living right now—do not go on anything that would last more than—pamphlets I’m fine, the pamphlets has our street address on it because they are lost and found and burned, get mothy quicker, but an address that’s in a library—I would like it to be as long as possible. I agree that the world is leaning towards a much more functional less tree necessary environment but prisoners do not have that opportunity. You have two members on this board who have asked me to forward printed materials. It isn’t because their old, they just need to see it that way. There’s always going to be a need for someone to see it just what’s so. There are people that have access to us through that book, not the pamphlet, but through that book that are in a place that don’t have access to the internet. Let’s say of all the books that are out there—if we have 67,000 members—that only ten thousand of them are in prisons throughout the world, Canada included, not so much in the UK and definitely not in Holland yet. If there are only 10,000 of them and my job is to make sure that they can access me, I want that address to be somehow—and I would like it to be a permanent address. Where it should be, is kind of on that hard part—where a volunteer and get to it, no matter what—that’s a question that needs to be left for Taffy to figure out, but I think a permanent address is a really important thing. Our grandfathers are using it because that’s how—they use it here—they know we’re not going to move.
Richard S: I understand that and personally I use a mail box. The address that everyone here has for me is a mail box. I could be living in one of two locations so for years that’s the only address that anyone has for me. So I understand that. My question is why are we looking at purchasing a second P.O. Box right now, why not wait until March and keep the office address?
Taffy: That’s the question that’s on the table. What to do.
Hayward: I think we’ve beaten the hell out of this horse. I think we gave Taffy something to do and let her do it. Let’s let Richard finish.
Richard L: I appreciate Richard is saying what he said. I also am going to speak against the whole thing. There’s a knee jerk reaction going on, we’ve got until March, we get maybe two-three pieces of mail a week that’s coming to the World Service Office—come the beginning of March…If we have to we will get a P.O. Box in the same place and they will just transfer it over…and nip it in the butt. Stop beating a dead horse. Let it be taken care of.
Tom: I make a motion to adjourn.
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Trevor: I’m going to be a smart ass. Why don’t we write a letter to the new P.O. Box owners campaign all over the world give us our box back you bastards.
John B: I want to thank both Boards for considering what in some our minds in very simple solution, for others apparently not so simple. Nevertheless: there a few choice words that I have and yet still to leverage the supervisor the area. From a customer service stand point, as a long 25 year postal customer, I am…that they would rely on technology—much like they check hotel rooms in and out—to give up the box of a 25 year customer. I think it atrocious, I think they need to understand the impact on this non-profit organization in the world and I think they need to consider closer than—oh sorry it just happened, you’re out of luck. Please have every confidence that the office is not finished communicating with the postal service, in the meantime the challenge can be like—from her forward—you’ve been charged with finalizing solution. Is that what I’m hearing?
Everyone: Yes
Hayward: Is there any other new business that wasn’t on here?
Everyone: Motion to adjourn.
Joy: Second
Hayward: All in favor?
Everyone: I
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